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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 20:38:36 GMT 1
We finished 3rd in league 1 and got promoted by a cock hair. We then proceded to sell our best player once promoted and replace him with an injury prone player and another on loan who no longer plays for us. Fast forward 2 seasons and again we sell our best player in Clayton. It doesn't matter how much profit we made the reality is that we now have a worse team than before. The likes of Brentford, Bournemouth and Rovrum have built on their teams once promoted instead of selling their best players. So I ask, if we were the 3rd best team in league 1 then sell our best players every season, how in the hell do this board expect us to compete at this level?, We are fucked unless the policy changes Sorry but you are totally missing the point, Clayton, Rhodes, Hunt, none of them wanted to be here, so and we were offered silly money for all of them, so exactly what other option was there?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 21:00:26 GMT 1
We finished 3rd in league 1 and got promoted by a cock hair. We then proceded to sell our best player once promoted and replace him with an injury prone player and another on loan who no longer plays for us. Fast forward 2 seasons and again we sell our best player in Clayton. It doesn't matter how much profit we made the reality is that we now have a worse team than before. The likes of Brentford, Bournemouth and Rovrum have built on their teams once promoted instead of selling their best players. So I ask, if we were the 3rd best team in league 1 then sell our best players every season, how in the hell do this board expect us to compete at this level?, We are fucked unless the policy changes Sorry but you are totally missing the point, Clayton, Rhodes, Hunt, none of them wanted to be here, so and we were offered silly money for all of them, so exactly what other option was there? If they didn't want to be here then Replace them with equal or better. Butterfield is ok at this level, couldn't get in the Middlesbrough side but ok. The only quality player we have at this level is Hudson.
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Post by galpharm2400 on Sept 21, 2014 21:09:46 GMT 1
ergo, lots of other teams offered 'silly money' for their best players. quite a few are strangely still playing at their clubs??? what happened there then? 3 managers in a row who cant quite get the players doing anything reasonably well,consistently? 3 games under this new manager where we haven't had any sort of proper reaction from the team..put bluntly we haven't had one player who over the 3 games raised his own personal game to a different level that stood out head and shoulders above the rest. ?? not only is it a dire start in terms of points, its dire in terms of performance. the team needs an injection of energy and a boost from somewhere. Waiting for Vaughan to come back isn't acceptable, just plodding on and hoping it will change or miraculously come right isn't either. Positive action required either in loan signings or just picking a team that might play a bit more in the oppositions half would be a start.. losing by one or two against millwall without troubling their keeper would be a disaster, nothing less(in footballing terms)..
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Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Sept 21, 2014 21:17:03 GMT 1
The worst thing about the current situation is that everyone saw it coming a bloody mile off! Well before a ball was kicked, this season had relegation struggle written all over it.
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Post by ritchie on Sept 21, 2014 21:28:00 GMT 1
We finished 3rd in league 1 and got promoted by a cock hair. We then proceded to sell our best player once promoted and replace him with an injury prone player and another on loan who no longer plays for us. Fast forward 2 seasons and again we sell our best player in Clayton. It doesn't matter how much profit we made the reality is that we now have a worse team than before. The likes of Brentford, Bournemouth and Rovrum have built on their teams once promoted instead of selling their best players.So I ask, if we were the 3rd best team in league 1 then sell our best players every season, how in the hell do this board expect us to compete at this level?, We are fucked unless the policy changes We brought in clayton, norwood, lynch, gerrard, dixon, beckford and vaughan - is that not building on our promoted squad?
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Post by keithAM11532 on Sept 21, 2014 21:38:33 GMT 1
I drive a ford pick up. I really want an Aston Martin - always had an eye for them. So why don't I go get myself a "quality" Aston. Simples.. no one will sell me one for the amount I am prepared to pay. Football is the same. we have a certain demography which gives us an operating capital. We try to get the best players within our means. When some of our players get better they go for higher paid jobs -just like everyone else does. The fact is we are a team destined to bounce between Championship and League 1 just as other teams bounce between the Premiership and the Championship. The quicker we all understand that the better. Bleating on this forum and demanding new players, new manager, new chairman with pots of cash is not going to change that.
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Post by workshyfop on Sept 21, 2014 21:45:50 GMT 1
I drive a ford pick up. I really want an Aston Martin - always had an eye for them. So why don't I go get myself a "quality" Aston. Simples.. no one will sell me one for the amount I am prepared to pay. Football is the same. we have a certain demography which gives us an operating capital. We try to get the best players within our means. When some of our players get better they go for higher paid jobs -just like everyone else does. The fact is we are a team destined to bounce between Championship and League 1 just as other teams bounce between the Premiership and the Championship. The quicker we all understand that the better. Bleating on this forum and demanding new players, new manager, new chairman with pots of cash is not going to change that. Correct. People need to lower their expectations. We've had no managerial stability and replace our best players with cheaper options. Hoyle needs to stop bleating about "underachieving" as that's blatantly untrue.
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Post by bluebeard on Sept 21, 2014 21:53:19 GMT 1
Dean wasn't forced to take over htfc.. same as I am not forced to buy a season ticket. As owner he is entitled to run the club however he sees fit, as a season ticket holder I am entitled to comment on that management as I see fit. We are both free men and both town fans. I will continue to buy season tickets but only for as long as I see some sort of return on my 'investment'. It is now up to Dean to either continue his 'investment' or if he sees no return then to think seriously about his continuance. I cant afford to buy more than 5 season tickets a year, I therefore cant up my 'investment' in HTFC but he can, if he sees fit to do so. If we continue in this form and the performances remain pretty similar there is clearly np point in us being here apart from fulfilling fixtures before relegation. That's where we are and ignoring it or denying it is pretty foolish. "Dean wasn't forced to take over htfc"!! no he wasn't but he has spent a hell of a lot of money and wont pay insane wages, that's what it's all about in this division. Whether we go down or stay up, i'll be supporting them like a lot more and every fan or so called fan has the right to watch them or not, but to call Dean Hoyle is just madness.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 21:57:26 GMT 1
We finished 3rd in league 1 and got promoted by a cock hair. We then proceded to sell our best player once promoted and replace him with an injury prone player and another on loan who no longer plays for us. Fast forward 2 seasons and again we sell our best player in Clayton. It doesn't matter how much profit we made the reality is that we now have a worse team than before. The likes of Brentford, Bournemouth and Rovrum have built on their teams once promoted instead of selling their best players.So I ask, if we were the 3rd best team in league 1 then sell our best players every season, how in the hell do this board expect us to compete at this level?, We are fucked unless the policy changes We brought in clayton, norwood, lynch, gerrard, dixon, beckford and vaughan - is that not building on our promoted squad? Clayton- yes an improvement. Norwood- not really an improvement, especially when you look at how he did for us and how Arfield has done since leaving. Lynch- couldn't get a game for Forrest Gerrard- couldn't get a game for Cardiff Dixon- scottish Premiership so equivalent of league 1 Beckford- fringe player for Leicester Vaughan- injury prone and wouldn't be with us if he could muster more than 20 games a season. All in all the players we have signed have been fringe players for their sides in a division we are also in. Signing a competitors cast offs ain't gonna improve you as a team
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 22:00:07 GMT 1
We won't pay the money required to send us to the next level so we will eventually be relegated. When clubs in the bottom half of this division are signing our best players we are only going to go one way
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Post by ritchie on Sept 21, 2014 22:06:47 GMT 1
We brought in clayton, norwood, lynch, gerrard, dixon, beckford and vaughan - is that not building on our promoted squad? Clayton- yes an improvement. Norwood- not really an improvement, especially when you look at how he did for us and how Arfield has done since leaving. Lynch- couldn't get a game for Forrest Gerrard- couldn't get a game for Cardiff Dixon- scottish Premiership so equivalent of league 1 Beckford- fringe player for Leicester Vaughan- injury prone and wouldn't be with us if he could muster more than 20 games a season. All in all the players we have signed have been fringe players for their sides in a division we are also in. Signing a competitors cast offs ain't gonna improve you as a team So those players didnt improve our team? You're having a laugh if you dont think they did. Our squad coming up was terrible and was dragged up by rhodes...been done to death why we couldnt keep rhodes so the best we could do was improve the squad and get in the best striker replacements we could (which we didnt do bad in vaughan and beckford that season) who cares if they were fringe players? doesnt mean they wont improve our team. Ironic you are talking about fringe players not being good enough yet mention arfield....who was a fringe player here!!
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Sept 21, 2014 22:12:10 GMT 1
We brought in clayton, norwood, lynch, gerrard, dixon, beckford and vaughan - is that not building on our promoted squad? Clayton- yes an improvement. Norwood- not really an improvement, especially when you look at how he did for us and how Arfield has done since leaving. Lynch- couldn't get a game for Forrest Gerrard- couldn't get a game for Cardiff Dixon- scottish Premiership so equivalent of league 1 Beckford- fringe player for Leicester Vaughan- injury prone and wouldn't be with us if he could muster more than 20 games a season.All in all the players we have signed have been fringe players for their sides in a division we are also in. Signing a competitors cast offs ain't gonna improve you as a team What rubbish!! First point Vaughan has played more than 20 games a season for us on loan and permanently. We were a promoted team of average or slightly above Lge 1 players. Clayton - without doubt an improvement over anything in midfield. Norwood - Better than Miller or Johnson - I think so! Lynch - better than P. Clarke - Yes! Gerrard - better than Kay or McCombe - Without doubt! Dixon - better than Naysmith or Ridhalgh - I think so! Beckford - Or Novak - let me think for a millisecond ! Vaughan - or Alan Lee - you tell me! Of course they bloody well improved us. If I could be bothered I'd check whether Rotherham and Brentford signed anything better than other cast offs from other teams from the Championshi.p or above .
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Post by galpharm2400 on Sept 21, 2014 22:23:34 GMT 1
5 season tickets per year for over 20 years.. in relation to what dean has to what I have(especially some years) id say we were pretty much 'equal' in terms of being town fans, if it comes down to money??? The above does not count home and away when I was much younger when I didn't need a season ticket or have kids etc.. I don't need your admiration or support, I chose to spend that money on a football team... oddly enough so did Dean..
What I do know is that an astute businessman knowing he cant compete at a particular level will cut his cloth and prepare to do better at a lower level. This is also to make sure the business survives. We have some good kids coming through, lets use this season to get them game time and at least it will be a honest sign that we know we cant compete yet and the pressure on players and the grief from fans may be somewhat reduced. This is the championship and bringing in a centre half when we haven't got a forward line worthy of the name most weeks isn't going to paper over the cracks.
I know its a difficult concept to grab but peparing for failure might be more beneficial than just plodding on towards it.??
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Post by ritchie on Sept 21, 2014 22:27:12 GMT 1
We brought in clayton, norwood, lynch, gerrard, dixon, beckford and vaughan - is that not building on our promoted squad? Clayton- yes an improvement. Norwood- not really an improvement, especially when you look at how he did for us and how Arfield has done since leaving. Lynch- couldn't get a game for Forrest Gerrard- couldn't get a game for Cardiff Dixon- scottish Premiership so equivalent of league 1 Beckford- fringe player for Leicester Vaughan- injury prone and wouldn't be with us if he could muster more than 20 games a season. All in all the players we have signed have been fringe players for their sides in a division we are also in. Signing a competitors cast offs ain't gonna improve you as a team "Lynch- couldn't get a game for Forrest" played 39 games the season before moving here "Gerrard- couldn't get a game for Cardiff" played 25 dont talk shite hilly
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Blueblood
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Post by Blueblood on Sept 21, 2014 22:30:48 GMT 1
Don't blame Dean the 11 wankers on the field need a bollocking of all bollockings.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 22:37:38 GMT 1
Sorry but you are totally missing the point, Clayton, Rhodes, Hunt, none of them wanted to be here, so and we were offered silly money for all of them, so exactly what other option was there? If they didn't want to be here then Replace them with equal or better. Butterfield is ok at this level, couldn't get in the Middlesbrough side but ok. The only quality player we have at this level is Hudson. Well as far as Clayton and Norwood goes, we did. Butterfield was hailed as being better than Clayton during Lillis' short tenure, any current lack of form from him now is down to Powell's decision to play him out of position. Coady is arguably a better player than Clayton, and both are comfortably better than Norwood.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 22:50:38 GMT 1
Clayton- yes an improvement. Norwood- not really an improvement, especially when you look at how he did for us and how Arfield has done since leaving. Lynch- couldn't get a game for Forrest Gerrard- couldn't get a game for Cardiff Dixon- scottish Premiership so equivalent of league 1 Beckford- fringe player for Leicester Vaughan- injury prone and wouldn't be with us if he could muster more than 20 games a season.All in all the players we have signed have been fringe players for their sides in a division we are also in. Signing a competitors cast offs ain't gonna improve you as a team What rubbish!! First point Vaughan has played more than 20 games a season for us on loan and permanently. We were a promoted team of average or slightly above Lge 1 players. Clayton - without doubt an improvement over anything in midfield. Norwood - Better than Miller or Johnson - I think so! Lynch - better than P. Clarke - Yes! Gerrard - better than Kay or McCombe - Without doubt! Dixon - better than Naysmith or Ridhalgh - I think so! Beckford - Or Novak - let me think for a millisecond ! Vaughan - or Alan Lee - you tell me! Of course they bloody well improved us. If I could be bothered I'd check whether Rotherham and Brentford signed anything better than other cast offs from other teams from the Championshi.p or above . Ok they improved us but not to a significant enough standard. What is it that's wrong then because something must be??
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 22:52:18 GMT 1
Clayton- yes an improvement. Norwood- not really an improvement, especially when you look at how he did for us and how Arfield has done since leaving. Lynch- couldn't get a game for Forrest Gerrard- couldn't get a game for Cardiff Dixon- scottish Premiership so equivalent of league 1 Beckford- fringe player for Leicester Vaughan- injury prone and wouldn't be with us if he could muster more than 20 games a season. All in all the players we have signed have been fringe players for their sides in a division we are also in. Signing a competitors cast offs ain't gonna improve you as a team "Lynch- couldn't get a game for Forrest" played 39 games the season before moving here "Gerrard- couldn't get a game for Cardiff" played 25 dont talk shite hilly Fair enough pal lynch may have had a more significant role but I'll bed most of Gerard's were sub appearances. I'm just trying to find a reason for our direness and I'm really struggling
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Post by Doc Halladay 32 on Sept 21, 2014 23:02:08 GMT 1
What rubbish!! First point Vaughan has played more than 20 games a season for us on loan and permanently. We were a promoted team of average or slightly above Lge 1 players. Clayton - without doubt an improvement over anything in midfield. Norwood - Better than Miller or Johnson - I think so! Lynch - better than P. Clarke - Yes! Gerrard - better than Kay or McCombe - Without doubt! Dixon - better than Naysmith or Ridhalgh - I think so! Beckford - Or Novak - let me think for a millisecond ! Vaughan - or Alan Lee - you tell me! Of course they bloody well improved us. If I could be bothered I'd check whether Rotherham and Brentford signed anything better than other cast offs from other teams from the Championshi.p or above . Ok they improved us but not to a significant enough standard. What is it that's wrong then because something must be?? What's wrong... we've had 3 poor performances at the start of the new manager's reign, coupled with a bad loss to our rivals. Were these questions being asked when Lillis' team won at Reading - THEY WERE NOT!! The trouble is after a short bad run some of our fans are absolutely overreacting, give Powell time to get what he wants bloody hell some are talking of his replacement already (after 3 games) in addition to relegation being nailed on (after 8 games) and these folk call themselves supporters they may be fans but support seems to be beyond them. It is Powell's task to sort his formation out and instill belief in this squad because despite what you say I believe they are capable of being comfortably midtable and any team in this division can have a bad week.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 23:15:57 GMT 1
Ok they improved us but not to a significant enough standard. What is it that's wrong then because something must be?? What's wrong... we've had 3 poor performances at the start of the new manager's reign, coupled with a bad loss to our rivals. Were these questions being asked when Lillis' team won at Reading - THEY WERE NOT!! The trouble is after a short bad run some of our fans are absolutely overreacting, give Powell time to get what he wants bloody hell some are talking of his replacement already (after 3 games) in addition to relegation being nailed on (after 8 games) and these folk call themselves supporters they may be fans but support seems to be beyond them. It is Powell's task to sort his formation out and instill belief in this squad because despite what you say I believe they are capable of being comfortably midtable and any team in this division can have a bad week. It's not a bad week it's a bad 9 months. Only idiots looked at the reading game and thought all was well. It's been a diabolical 9 months and a change of manager hasn't stopped the rot
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Post by thrice on Sept 21, 2014 23:17:20 GMT 1
The crippling injury list has not helped thus far either.
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Post by jimmythebulldog on Sept 21, 2014 23:19:49 GMT 1
Sorry but you are totally missing the point, Clayton, Rhodes, Hunt, none of them wanted to be here, so and we were offered silly money for all of them, so exactly what other option was there? If they didn't want to be here then Replace them with equal or better. Butterfield is ok at this level, couldn't get in the Middlesbrough side but ok. The only quality player we have at this level is Hudson. So I understand what you're saying - if a player of the quality of Rhodes, a once in a generation player at a club like Town, doesn't want to be here - we should replace him with someone equal or better? I've heard some puddled comments on here but thats a beauty. Who should we have bought then to replace Rhodes?
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Post by 3Pipe on Sept 21, 2014 23:27:52 GMT 1
Careful, the sensitive little soul will be offering you out for a 'real life fight' with talk like that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 23:29:54 GMT 1
Careful, the sensitive little soul will be offering you out for a 'real life fight' with talk like that. No need for that mate.
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Post by 3Pipe on Sept 21, 2014 23:35:21 GMT 1
No need for what? It's the truth. The kid's having a shocker again. Next step he'll be entering internet hard man mode. Watch..
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 23:38:53 GMT 1
If they didn't want to be here then Replace them with equal or better. Butterfield is ok at this level, couldn't get in the Middlesbrough side but ok. The only quality player we have at this level is Hudson. So I understand what you're saying - if a player of the quality of Rhodes, a once in a generation player at a club like Town, doesn't want to be here - we should replace him with someone equal or better? I've heard some puddled comments on here but thats a beauty. Who should we have bought then to replace Rhodes? No what I am saying is that in the main part Rhodes was unbelievably pivotal in us getting promotion. Now, if we take the fact that promotion was achieved by a minute margin, coupled by the fact that we then sold the player almost single handedly responsible for achieving said promotion it doesn't leave us with much of a championship side does it?? Pick my argument to bits as much as you like but I stand by my criticisms whether you like it or not.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 23:41:24 GMT 1
No need for what? It's the truth. The kid's having a shocker again. Next step he'll be entering internet hard man mode. Watch.. You are the dictionary definition of a keyboard warrior. Dish out the insults like tic tacs then shit yourself when someone calls you out. I couldn't care less what you or anyone else think of me, but At least I have the brains to understand two sides to an argument unlike you.
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Post by 3Pipe on Sept 21, 2014 23:47:38 GMT 1
Told ya.
Hilly you're full of it.
Keep on digging kid.
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Post by keithAM11532 on Sept 22, 2014 0:21:12 GMT 1
Funny old game don't you think. All those Man U fans screaming for Moyes blood - because it was clearly his fault (frivolous use of sarcasm there). So the board caves in to the desires of the masses and they get LVG. World cup semi final manager. Oh and lowly Leicester put 5 past them. Doesn't that make you think ??
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Post by jimmythebulldog on Sept 22, 2014 1:26:37 GMT 1
So I understand what you're saying - if a player of the quality of Rhodes, a once in a generation player at a club like Town, doesn't want to be here - we should replace him with someone equal or better? I've heard some puddled comments on here but thats a beauty. Who should we have bought then to replace Rhodes? No what I am saying is that in the main part Rhodes was unbelievably pivotal in us getting promotion. Now, if we take the fact that promotion was achieved by a minute margin, coupled by the fact that we then sold the player almost single handedly responsible for achieving said promotion it doesn't leave us with much of a championship side does it?? Pick my argument to bits as much as you like but I stand by my criticisms whether you like it or not. I know where you're coming from and I took your post very literal which is of course wrong of me. But the truth is we cant hold onto quality players - certainly not top quality championship players - we cant match their wage demands or their ambition. But what we can do is build a team spirit - play the guys we have in their best positions - and play with passion. And all 3 of those are missing in spades at the moment. Everyone is frustrated - people fighting all over the forum - thats not what I want to do. So I get your point - and hopefully the players that have come in to replace those that have moved on can get their arses in gear and start to play the game.
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