Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2020 21:48:03 GMT 1
Yeah it’s a shame. Ive long advocated the introduction of a franchise system but it would unfortunately mean the current system having to totally break down first and 50 or 60:clubs going to the wall in order for the space to be generated to form a new centrally and closely governed system. But we probably need a global war or a massively devastating virus or suchlike for that to have a chance of happening. Genuine question, what do you mean by a franchise system? West Yorkshire united? London Lions? Teams swapping cities like in the States? Genuinely curious as to how you would franchise football without completely eliminating its local, grass roots ethos. I mean at the top level of the game (which would be no larger than 3 x 20 teams), the clubs should be owned and governed by a central body, with the third party owners like we have today having to fork out their own money for the right to simply operate the club for a short term (maybe 3 years max) licensed period. Throw in a player draft system given I’d have their contracts owned centrally. If a club works its way to League 2 (or actually to the 3rd tower of the game since League 2 doesn’t exist), they can elect to stay where they were, OR merge the club into the franchise system and get the operating license for the next 3 seasons.
|
|
|
Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Mar 15, 2020 21:48:58 GMT 1
Do you honestly think that players, officials, the general public etc are going to lock themselves away for months on end with no contact with anybody? No matter how serious this gets, It just won't happen. Players mixing with other players is no different to members of the public mixing with anybody else. How do you think foods and medicines etc will be distributed? By folk mixing with other folk. Football is no different to any other industry. Your employer can't force you to work, against government advice, even if your job is playing football once a week. As detached from reality as they are they're still humans and exposed to the same risks. The decision by the PL/EFL to suspend football was taken against the current government advice.
|
|
|
Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Mar 15, 2020 22:24:41 GMT 1
if what i've heard is correct, they might as well just call the season off right now. The current government advice will change sharpish. The whole season should just be abandoned. No Promotion or relegation. start again when the virus has gone.
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 15, 2020 22:31:52 GMT 1
Ultimately it'll be the simplest decision that will be taken. Convaluted and complicated assumptions will be avoided as they'll just attract criticism and likely legal action...whereas a straight abandoning of the season and no one promoted or relegated is the obvious,and only, solution.. That is the only way to avoid legal action by anyone remotely concerned. If it’s done in the championship it will have to be done everywhere in the elf Could bury be readmitted? Do Bury still exist as a club ? Mean do they have any players, any staff, anything?
|
|
|
Post by Christ in Shades (art) on Mar 15, 2020 22:40:24 GMT 1
Your employer can't force you to work, against government advice, even if your job is playing football once a week. As detached from reality as they are they're still humans and exposed to the same risks. The decision by the PL/EFL to suspend football was taken against the current government advice. Yeah and that's why clubs are going to sue their arses when it gets called null and void.
|
|
|
Post by Million Dollar Babies on Mar 15, 2020 22:47:42 GMT 1
if what i've heard is correct, they might as well just call the season off right now. The current government advice will change sharpish. The whole season should just be abandoned. No Promotion or relegation. start again when the virus has gone. What have you heard
|
|
|
Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Mar 15, 2020 23:10:17 GMT 1
if what i've heard is correct, they might as well just call the season off right now. The current government advice will change sharpish. The whole season should just be abandoned. No Promotion or relegation. start again when the virus has gone. What have you heard well it ain't going to be three weeks for starters....
|
|
|
Post by space hardware on Mar 15, 2020 23:22:41 GMT 1
Right now, no one is promoted or relegated. Even Liverpool aren't officially crowned as PL champions.
You can't end the season now and promote or relegate teams on the basis of where they are now. It's bollocks.
On Leeds, at this stage of the 2016/17 season they were apparently nailed on for the play offs and still in with a shout of getting an automatic promotion place.
They fucked it up.
Last year they were apparently nailed on to go up automatically.
They fucked it up.
Unless the season can be finished fully it needs to be voided.
|
|
|
Post by BlueValour on Mar 16, 2020 2:06:06 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by Baby-face Frankenstein on Mar 16, 2020 2:30:14 GMT 1
Sad as it is, most won't likely be laking professional football next season. But one never knows.
|
|
|
Post by colnevalleyblue on Mar 16, 2020 8:32:41 GMT 1
Yes but what actually happened when the competitions were restarted after the “war time leagues” ended...was it all the clubs that had started that earlier brief aborted season starting again, did any of them not reform...it would seem incredible if things were paused for 4 years or whatever and then just restarted pretty much where they’d left off!! Had to look this up but the fixtures in the top flight after the war (46-7) were played in the same order that they had been planned to have been in 39-40. Man Utd were playing at Maine Road because Old Trafford had been bombed so there were some changes but the teams that had been in the top flight pre-war inc Town were the same. Leeds were relegated at the end of the season so every cloud..... I believe Man Utd even borrowed Leeds Road for a brief time to play out one or two fixtures. I know Bradford City used it in the eighties after the tragedy but am I correct in also thinking Leeds have uaed it?
|
|
|
Post by explorer on Mar 16, 2020 9:02:45 GMT 1
Had to look this up but the fixtures in the top flight after the war (46-7) were played in the same order that they had been planned to have been in 39-40. Man Utd were playing at Maine Road because Old Trafford had been bombed so there were some changes but the teams that had been in the top flight pre-war inc Town were the same. Leeds were relegated at the end of the season so every cloud..... I believe Man Utd even borrowed Leeds Road for a brief time to play out one or two fixtures. I know Bradford City used it in the eighties after the tragedy but am I correct in also thinking Leeds have uaed it? Yup. LEEDS played two ‘home’ fixtures at Town’s Leeds Road ground in 1971, against Wolves and Crystal Palace. Elland Road was closed after crowd trouble. I sincerely hope that we had the ground deep-cleansed afterwards.
|
|
|
Post by Walton-on-the-Hill Terrier on Mar 16, 2020 9:55:01 GMT 1
Imagine being a Brentford fan and realising you might have unknowingly already seen the last ever game at Griffin Park. Sad end to a great old venue if true.
|
|
|
Post by royrace on Mar 16, 2020 10:24:13 GMT 1
Right now, no one is promoted or relegated. Even Liverpool aren't officially crowned as PL champions. You can't end the season now and promote or relegate teams on the basis of where they are now. It's bollocks. On Leeds, at this stage of the 2016/17 season they were apparently nailed on for the play offs and still in with a shout of getting an automatic promotion place. They fucked it up. Last year they were apparently nailed on to go up automatically. They fucked it up. Unless the season can be finished fully it needs to be voided. That does seem to be the logical choice unless they can somehow manage to resume games behind closed doors. Anything else would be a logistical nightmare. Easy for us to say of course, if you're club was heading for promotion or silverware you'd obviously feel differently but some things are way more important than football and the current situation is one of them. I'm only guessing but I would imagine none of the clubs would have legal reason to challenge for losses due to force majeure clauses that surely the leagues have in place. My preference (if it werent for Leeds position ) would be to conclude the season behind closed doors. Whether the players and staff would accept that is another matter.
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 16, 2020 10:37:44 GMT 1
Right now, no one is promoted or relegated. Even Liverpool aren't officially crowned as PL champions. You can't end the season now and promote or relegate teams on the basis of where they are now. It's bollocks. On Leeds, at this stage of the 2016/17 season they were apparently nailed on for the play offs and still in with a shout of getting an automatic promotion place. They fucked it up. Last year they were apparently nailed on to go up automatically. They fucked it up. Unless the season can be finished fully it needs to be voided. That does seem to be the logical choice unless they can somehow manage to resume games behind closed doors. Anything else would be a logistical nightmare. Easy for us to say of course, if you're club was heading for promotion or silverware you'd obviously feel differently but some things are way more important than football and the current situation is one of them. I'm only guessing but I would imagine none of the clubs would have legal reason to challenge for losses due to force majeure clauses that surely the leagues have in place. My preference (if it werent for Leeds position ) would be to conclude the season behind closed doors. Whether the players and staff would accept that is another matter. They wouldn't. Not if Rooneys attitude is anything to go by as its outrageous that footballers are used as guinea pigs to see what happens if you have to carry on working during this crisis. Even with the most positive projections of how the virus will spread over the next few months, theres absolutely no chance this seasons fixtures will be completed IMO, closed doors or not. The PL will decide what it wants to do ( and that will be a money orientated decision ) , then the EFL will fall into line behind that. If I was a Leeds fan Id still be more confident of being in the prem next season than I was worried about being in the championship.
|
|
|
Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Mar 16, 2020 10:50:52 GMT 1
That does seem to be the logical choice unless they can somehow manage to resume games behind closed doors. Anything else would be a logistical nightmare. Easy for us to say of course, if you're club was heading for promotion or silverware you'd obviously feel differently but some things are way more important than football and the current situation is one of them. I'm only guessing but I would imagine none of the clubs would have legal reason to challenge for losses due to force majeure clauses that surely the leagues have in place. My preference (if it werent for Leeds position ) would be to conclude the season behind closed doors. Whether the players and staff would accept that is another matter. They wouldn't. Not if Rooneys attitude is anything to go by as its outrageous that footballers are used as guinea pigs to see what happens if you have to carry on working during this crisis. Even with the most positive projections of how the virus will spread over the next few months, theres absolutely no chance this seasons fixtures will be completed IMO, closed doors or not. The PL will decide what it wants to do ( and that will be a money orientated decision ) , then the EFL will fall into line behind that. If I was a Leeds fan Id still be more confident of being in the prem next season than I was worried about being in the championship. surely the FA will have a say in all this? They govern the rules of the game so they now have to come up with a plan that will satisfy everyone. If teams are promoted and relegated from the situation they find themselves in right now would the relegated sides have a case for legal action against them? Surely fixtures have to be fulfilled totally? Isn't that the whole point of the competitions?
It needs a strong hand and decisive decision not in 14 days or 21 days, but right now.
My opinion is obviously that the season is scrubbed and we start again in August (if possible) as the competition has had to be abandoned. You could suggest that this would be a tad unfair on those in the top two of the championship but it would be a hell of a lot fairer for those scrapping for survival at the other end of the table.
Any points deductions (i'd give em between 12 and 15) incoming for the Wendies and Derby can then be applied immediately at the beginning of next season.
|
|
|
Post by townatheart on Mar 16, 2020 10:55:50 GMT 1
They wouldn't. Not if Rooneys attitude is anything to go by as its outrageous that footballers are used as guinea pigs to see what happens if you have to carry on working during this crisis. Even with the most positive projections of how the virus will spread over the next few months, theres absolutely no chance this seasons fixtures will be completed IMO, closed doors or not. The PL will decide what it wants to do ( and that will be a money orientated decision ) , then the EFL will fall into line behind that. If I was a Leeds fan Id still be more confident of being in the prem next season than I was worried about being in the championship. surely the FA will have a say in all this? They govern the rules of the game so they now have to come up with a plan that will satisfy everyone. If teams are promoted and relegated from the situation they find themselves in right now would the relegated sides have a case for legal action against them? Surely fixtures have to be fulfilled totally? Isn't that the whole point of the competitions? It needs a strong hand and decisive decision not in 14 days or 21 days, but right now.
My opinion is obviously that the season is scrubbed and we start again in August (if possible) as the competition has had to be abandoned. You could suggest that this would be a tad unfair on those in the top two of the championship but it would be a hell of a lot fairer for those scrapping for survival at the other end of the table. Any points deductions (i'd give em between 12 and 15) incoming for the Wendies and Derby can then be applied immediately at the beginning of next season.
Sorry but you are dreaming if you think anybody, not least of all the FA, could devise a plan to satisfy EVERYONE😀.
|
|
|
Post by Farsley Terrier (UK product) on Mar 16, 2020 10:58:12 GMT 1
surely the FA will have a say in all this? They govern the rules of the game so they now have to come up with a plan that will satisfy everyone. If teams are promoted and relegated from the situation they find themselves in right now would the relegated sides have a case for legal action against them? Surely fixtures have to be fulfilled totally? Isn't that the whole point of the competitions? It needs a strong hand and decisive decision not in 14 days or 21 days, but right now.
My opinion is obviously that the season is scrubbed and we start again in August (if possible) as the competition has had to be abandoned. You could suggest that this would be a tad unfair on those in the top two of the championship but it would be a hell of a lot fairer for those scrapping for survival at the other end of the table. Any points deductions (i'd give em between 12 and 15) incoming for the Wendies and Derby can then be applied immediately at the beginning of next season.
Sorry but you are dreaming if you think anybody, not least of all the FA, could devise a plan to satisfy EVERYONE😀. yeah I know, but the rules of the game are theirs. Who else makes the decision?
|
|
Champers
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,395
|
Post by Champers on Mar 16, 2020 10:59:20 GMT 1
They wouldn't. Not if Rooneys attitude is anything to go by as its outrageous that footballers are used as guinea pigs to see what happens if you have to carry on working during this crisis. Even with the most positive projections of how the virus will spread over the next few months, theres absolutely no chance this seasons fixtures will be completed IMO, closed doors or not. The PL will decide what it wants to do ( and that will be a money orientated decision ) , then the EFL will fall into line behind that. If I was a Leeds fan Id still be more confident of being in the prem next season than I was worried about being in the championship. surely the FA will have a say in all this? They govern the rules of the game so they now have to come up with a plan that will satisfy everyone. If teams are promoted and relegated from the situation they find themselves in right now would the relegated sides have a case for legal action against them? Surely fixtures have to be fulfilled totally? Isn't that the whole point of the competitions? It needs a strong hand and decisive decision not in 14 days or 21 days, but right now.
My opinion is obviously that the season is scrubbed and we start again in August (if possible) as the competition has had to be abandoned. You could suggest that this would be a tad unfair on those in the top two of the championship but it would be a hell of a lot fairer for those scrapping for survival at the other end of the table. Any points deductions (i'd give em between 12 and 15) incoming for the Wendies and Derby can then be applied immediately at the beginning of next season.
Totally agree with all of this. And it would be just as unfair on any team who have a chance of promotion still, not just the top 2 in each division. In the championship nobody is even near promotion yet. Say Leeds lost at Cardiff then Fulham won both games including beating them at home next up, not the most impossible of outcomes given Leeds' history of seeing things through, then it's all to play for with another SEVEN games left. That's how quickly the landscape could have changed at the top of this league so to just promote someone on current position would be bullshit. If the game is supposedly all about "fair play" then without the conclusion of the season you can't make any final decisions on promotion or relegation. Promoting or relegating anyone would be simply immoral.
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 16, 2020 11:00:30 GMT 1
They wouldn't. Not if Rooneys attitude is anything to go by as its outrageous that footballers are used as guinea pigs to see what happens if you have to carry on working during this crisis. Even with the most positive projections of how the virus will spread over the next few months, theres absolutely no chance this seasons fixtures will be completed IMO, closed doors or not. The PL will decide what it wants to do ( and that will be a money orientated decision ) , then the EFL will fall into line behind that. If I was a Leeds fan Id still be more confident of being in the prem next season than I was worried about being in the championship. surely the FA will have a say in all this? They govern the rules of the game so they now have to come up with a plan that will satisfy everyone. If teams are promoted and relegated from the situation they find themselves in right now would the relegated sides have a case for legal action against them? Surely fixtures have to be fulfilled totally? Isn't that the whole point of the competitions? It needs a strong hand and decisive decision not in 14 days or 21 days, but right now.
My opinion is obviously that the season is scrubbed and we start again in August (if possible) as the competition has had to be abandoned. You could suggest that this would be a tad unfair on those in the top two of the championship but it would be a hell of a lot fairer for those scrapping for survival at the other end of the table. Any points deductions (i'd give em between 12 and 15) incoming for the Wendies and Derby can then be applied immediately at the beginning of next season.
Yeah i think relegation is an absolute no no. Like you say it would lead to all sorts of legal campaigns. Promotions a bit different I suppose, but even there a club who have just missed out would probably feel very aggrieved. Barry Hearns just been on the radio and his opinion is that this season should be completed regardless of how long it takes.. even if its not even finished by the autumn. Thought being that next season doesn;t exist yet, so its more important to finish this one and then work out what youre going to do for 20/21 then. I get his point but you then have to factor in things like players contracts, many of which will be running out this summer. Season tickets bought for 20/21 which might not even exist as a proper season then. Its a nightmare scenario really and whatever they decide to do there'll be all sorts of issues.
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 16, 2020 11:04:13 GMT 1
It could be that the 'fairest' and certainly least controversial way out of this is the blend the 2 seasons together. Effectively play a 2019/21 season of 92 games ( in the championship ) spread over 2 years.
|
|
|
Post by Torquayterrier on Mar 16, 2020 11:27:48 GMT 1
The only club that could have a serious grievence is Liverpool who were only 2 games off the title but you have to make the decision same for everybody. They will still probably have an open topped bus through the streets but the streets will be empty as everyone will be watching it on a live stream at home. Strange times.
|
|
|
Post by Mastercracker on Mar 16, 2020 11:41:41 GMT 1
surely the FA will have a say in all this? They govern the rules of the game so they now have to come up with a plan that will satisfy everyone. If teams are promoted and relegated from the situation they find themselves in right now would the relegated sides have a case for legal action against them? Surely fixtures have to be fulfilled totally? Isn't that the whole point of the competitions? It needs a strong hand and decisive decision not in 14 days or 21 days, but right now.
My opinion is obviously that the season is scrubbed and we start again in August (if possible) as the competition has had to be abandoned. You could suggest that this would be a tad unfair on those in the top two of the championship but it would be a hell of a lot fairer for those scrapping for survival at the other end of the table. Any points deductions (i'd give em between 12 and 15) incoming for the Wendies and Derby can then be applied immediately at the beginning of next season.
Yeah i think relegation is an absolute no no. Like you say it would lead to all sorts of legal campaigns. Promotions a bit different I suppose, but even there a club who have just missed out would probably feel very aggrieved. Barry Hearns just been on the radio and his opinion is that this season should be completed regardless of how long it takes.. even if its not even finished by the autumn. Thought being that next season doesn;t exist yet, so its more important to finish this one and then work out what youre going to do for 20/21 then. I get his point but you then have to factor in things like players contracts, many of which will be running out this summer. Season tickets bought for 20/21 which might not even exist as a proper season then.Its a nightmare scenario really and whatever they decide to do there'll be all sorts of issues. That's the big problem with the finish it however long it takes route. It opens massive problems with contracts/loans and the squads could be totally different in September than they are now. The integrity of the season is out of the window in that case, and that's even if they can work through a solution for the contractual legalities of it all. It seems a totally unworkable option to me. Its not like delaying a boxing card which is perhaps what Hearn is equating it to.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2020 12:06:25 GMT 1
The decision by the PL/EFL to suspend football was taken against the current government advice. Yeah and that's why clubs are going to sue their arses when it gets called null and void. In real terms, the EPL/EFL effectively postponed ONE round of fixtures. As of this next weekend, football matches would be outlawed as mass gatherings by legislation.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2020 12:18:45 GMT 1
As a follow up...someone posted earlier about the season being abandoned and resumed with same teams after the war, that was the case with the 2nd World War...but for WW1, even though the season actually had finished / not started, when it resumed the top flight changed.
They went from 20-22 teams,
Derby and Preston were promoted having finished 1st and 2nd.
Spurs who had finished bottom WERE relegated, Chelsea had finished in the second relegation spot but were given a reprieve because Man Utd and Liverpool had fixed their final game to avoid Man Utd being relegated. Arsenal who had finished 5th in the Second division were promoted.
Barnsley and Wolves were the teams that finished points ahead of Arsenal but missed out.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2020 13:02:48 GMT 1
My own thoughts would be that the season is either completed or declared null and void. If you start promoting Leeds/WBA then you have to do the same in League One/Two. In League One 3 points separate 2nd and 8th so it is far to tight to do that.
In terms of finishing the season, it seems very unlikely that it would happen. Just in the Premier League, City and United have a potential 19 and 18 games respectively left to play yet if they reach the finals of the cup competitions they are still in. You then have to factor in that the PL needs to be aligned to whatever happens across the rest of Europe, in terms of how next season looks, when European competition starts, transfer window etc.
A shortened season next season could be on the cards, but then how does that affect Season Tickets etc which have already been sold.
To be fair how football proceeds isn't massively important in the grand scheme of things but it will take some sorting.
|
|
|
Post by Torquayterrier on Mar 16, 2020 13:12:22 GMT 1
I think that's the main issue with the idea of playing it out however long it takes. We just don't know how long it will be before any real 'normality' is regained so going down that route has a knock on effect for the next season and so it perpetuates. A unilateral abandonement of this season at leaves gives some breathing space in case the next season doesnt start until, say, mid September.
|
|
|
Post by Frankiesleftpeg on Mar 16, 2020 13:37:27 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by stinkypete on Mar 16, 2020 14:33:57 GMT 1
It could be that the 'fairest' and certainly least controversial way out of this is the blend the 2 seasons together. Effectively play a 2019/21 season of 92 games ( in the championship ) spread over 2 years. I think this is the fairest way to do it. I can’t see how anyone could argue with that. I think there’s got to be a deadline of 30th June when this season has to be completed otherwise you’re getting into all sorts of contractual issues.
|
|
|
Post by Jello Biafra on Mar 16, 2020 15:15:27 GMT 1
Divide current number of points by current number of games played. Multiply this by 38 for PL and 46 for EFL. This will generate a finished table. Award Champions their trophies - BUT, no promotion or relegation. Start next season afresh as soon as practicable.
|
|