|
Post by dugnet on Jul 16, 2020 9:53:32 GMT 1
I think we have reached the point that we need to, really, draw a line under the past 4 years. We tried a "continuation" of the Wagner era and that has failed spectacularly, that magic has long gone. We need to recognise this and have a plan. I hope to goodness we do have something for different scenarios. This claptrap about "we can't do anything until we know what division we are in" is only partially true, you can still have a plan of what you want to achieve and how you will look to do it. If it is Championship we do x-y-z if it is League 1 we do a-b-c.
The fact is in the squad we have players who are carrying the baggage of failing after success and players who came (for different reasons - you could say money as one) and now want to, or need to, leave. We have some good kids but they need to either be integrated and trusted or deemed not good enough.
As ever with any club our best/most consistent players will attract interest. Grant (I know his form since return has been poor) & O'Brien will attract interest and may leave. We then have players who it may be in their interest to leave, such as Hogg and Schindler. Then we have those who I don't think many would worry if they left. Apart from the obvious suspects you can throw in Pritchard, King, Coleman, Willock, Campbell, Quaner, Kachunga, Elphick, Brown and Pyke. It is unlikely that we would be able to afford Lossl and Smith Rowe is likely to be found a "better opportunity". That leaves you with Mounie (potentially worth keeping but may leave), Bacuna (an enigma in every sense), Stearman (with pace beside him would be ok), Toffolo and potentially Chalobah.
All in all you are looking at a potential restructure of the senior squad with as many as 17 players leaving. That's one hell of a job in what might be as little as a 6 week window (to the next season starting).
The other question (and I would hope part of the aforementioned plan) is do we trust and stick with the Cowleys. For me on the balance of the situation and what I have seen we have to make a bold decision to trust them and support them. The games since we returned have been poor, there is not getting away from that. However if we believe that they could build their own squad and identity that they would be successful we have to stick with them. My point being I think they have pragmatically tried to drag a mentally shot group of players over the line.
Although we can't be sure it is likely that has we not had lockdown the momentum (Leeds game aside) that was beginning to build may have seen us safe. What the games since lockdown has shown, in a very clear light, is just how many problems we have to solve. Irrespective of who you have as manager those problems are essentially the same. My concern is that we have witnessed what can happen when you don't have a coherent plan that everyone is aligned behind. I hope that we have learned and do have a clear strategy for moving the club forward, whatever division we are in. NB: If we drop to League 1 we still need a plan, we cannot allow the rot to set in any further. Relegation would be horrible but we need to pick ourselves up and start to move forward again.
The worst case scenario is we scrape up and think "we'll be alright now" - all evidence suggests that we won't be. To be fair PH has said we need a reset so I am hopeful we have a plan for that.
As sad as it may seem the Wagner era, as great as it was, is officially over. I make this point because it is still fresh in the memory and perhaps we think it will return, it won't. It is possibly the most difficult time to "reset" any business but that is what is required, and as I say we need a plan that can be delivered.
It's going to be fascinating to see what happens - it's a challenge but also an opportunity. The final question is do we have the people in charge to embrace that opportunity and create something different that can try to be successful? My message to the club would be "give us something to believe in, that we can get behind, and build a new momentum".
|
|
Amigo
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,843
|
Post by Amigo on Jul 16, 2020 9:56:45 GMT 1
O Brien, Toffolo, Hogg, Schindler, Stearman.. theyre the only players we own that Id be sorry to see leave. But Id want to persevere with pritchard, partly because we'd lose a fortune on him if he left, but also because i think there is a player in there... hes proved that in the past at this level only 2 years ago. For whatever reason he hasnt shown it for us, but that player is still there somewhere. We'll be stuck with most of the rest as no ones going to either want them, or be prepared to offer them anything like the wages they get here. And I wouldnt change the manager even if we went down. It's 3 years now since Pritchard had a good season, the 16/17 season. The only other good season he's had in his career was the 14/15 season for Brentford. The most important thing for me is that in 61 appearances he's scored 3 and assisted 1. For a number 10 to have half as many assists as our goalkeeper (he has played 20 games less though I guess) is embarrassing.
|
|
Tinpot
Mental Health Support Group
I'm really tinpot
Posts: 22,270
|
Post by Tinpot on Jul 16, 2020 9:57:12 GMT 1
There's a losing culture at this club and although individually many of the players are good enough, I don't think they believe they can win.
That said, we shouldn't let them go for a song. E.g. Grant and o'Brien could still command good fees and we should not let them go for less than their value.
A lot of new faces will need to come in, build a new culture at the club. For that to happen, we need a lot of players to leave. There are no sacred cows.
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Jul 16, 2020 10:04:40 GMT 1
O Brien, Toffolo, Hogg, Schindler, Stearman.. theyre the only players we own that Id be sorry to see leave. But Id want to persevere with pritchard, partly because we'd lose a fortune on him if he left, but also because i think there is a player in there... hes proved that in the past at this level only 2 years ago. For whatever reason he hasnt shown it for us, but that player is still there somewhere. We'll be stuck with most of the rest as no ones going to either want them, or be prepared to offer them anything like the wages they get here. And I wouldnt change the manager even if we went down. It's 3 years now since Pritchard had a good season, the 16/17 season. The only other good season he's had in his career was the 14/15 season for Brentford. The most important thing for me is that in 61 appearances he's scored 3 and assisted 1. For a number 10 to have half as many assists as our goalkeeper (he has played 20 games less though I guess) is embarrassing. His stats are terrible. But i think hes a better player than that. Just one that has struggled to get over injuries and one who has lost all his confidence. We'd have to practically give him away to get someone to come in and offer him the wages hes getting here I imagine, so I doubt we'll have any choice but to persevere with him anyway.
|
|
|
Post by clayts on Jul 16, 2020 10:08:21 GMT 1
No he isn't, 3 years ago possibly but certainly not now. He slows everything down and very rarely passes it anywhere other than backwards. If we go down I'd keep him as I think he'd better suited to that division, however, if we stay up I'd tr and offload him as he's not good enough for this division anymore. He's only here on sentiment, the same as Schindler and Kachunga. Thats just not true at all though. Its one of those perceptions that doesn;t have any relation to fact IMO. We had one killer ball played into the box at Hillsborough that set grant up with a good chance.. and it was Hogg that played it. Think if we were to release Hogg then just about every club in this division would take him if they could. Hes just the sort of player managers love. I bet you they wouldn't.
|
|
Amigo
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,843
|
Post by Amigo on Jul 16, 2020 10:40:32 GMT 1
It's 3 years now since Pritchard had a good season, the 16/17 season. The only other good season he's had in his career was the 14/15 season for Brentford. The most important thing for me is that in 61 appearances he's scored 3 and assisted 1. For a number 10 to have half as many assists as our goalkeeper (he has played 20 games less though I guess) is embarrassing. His stats are terrible. But i think hes a better player than that. Just one that has struggled to get over injuries and one who has lost all his confidence. We'd have to practically give him away to get someone to come in and offer him the wages hes getting here I imagine, so I doubt we'll have any choice but to persevere with him anyway. Yeah I'm not saying he won't flourish somewhere else again, more likely somewhere back down south I'd imagine, no idea about his personal life but I think it's probable he'd be happier closer to family and friends (he never seems very outgoing in interviews although obviously it's not easy to judge someone from them) and maybe he's not settled up here. I would hope that someone would look at his reputation when he came here and take a punt on him. I think in the current climate we're going to lose a lot of money on players anyway as most clubs will and rather than looking at how much we paid for him it's more of a case of looking at how much we could replace him with, in all honesty considering performances, output and transfer fees in general will be lower it shouldn't cost anywhere near £10m+. Wages will be the bigger issue and whether he's willing to take a cut which will be lower where ever he goes.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2020 11:44:42 GMT 1
there will b a few hard decisions to be made out of necessity what ever division we are in but I certainly don't think it will involve the cowleys. Do you mean the Cowley's won't be making the decisions, the Cowley's won't be here to make the decisions or the Cowley's will be here to make the decisions? Confused? You will be cowleys will be here and yes I should have explained it better.the decision on there future will not be up for discussion in my view
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2020 11:53:38 GMT 1
I think we have reached the point that we need to, really, draw a line under the past 4 years. We tried a "continuation" of the Wagner era and that has failed spectacularly, that magic has long gone. We need to recognise this and have a plan. I hope to goodness we do have something for different scenarios. This claptrap about "we can't do anything until we know what division we are in" is only partially true, you can still have a plan of what you want to achieve and how you will look to do it. If it is Championship we do x-y-z if it is League 1 we do a-b-c. The fact is in the squad we have players who are carrying the baggage of failing after success and players who came (for different reasons - you could say money as one) and now want to, or need to, leave. We have some good kids but they need to either be integrated and trusted or deemed not good enough. As ever with any club our best/most consistent players will attract interest. Grant (I know his form since return has been poor) & O'Brien will attract interest and may leave. We then have players who it may be in their interest to leave, such as Hogg and Schindler. Then we have those who I don't think many would worry if they left. Apart from the obvious suspects you can throw in Pritchard, King, Coleman, Willock, Campbell, Quaner, Kachunga, Elphick, Brown and Pyke. It is unlikely that we would be able to afford Lossl and Smith Rowe is likely to be found a "better opportunity". That leaves you with Mounie (potentially worth keeping but may leave), Bacuna (an enigma in every sense), Stearman (with pace beside him would be ok), Toffolo and potentially Chalobah. All in all you are looking at a potential restructure of the senior squad with as many as 17 players leaving. That's one hell of a job in what might be as little as a 6 week window (to the next season starting). The other question (and I would hope part of the aforementioned plan) is do we trust and stick with the Cowleys. For me on the balance of the situation and what I have seen we have to make a bold decision to trust them and support them. The games since we returned have been poor, there is not getting away from that. However if we believe that they could build their own squad and identity that they would be successful we have to stick with them. My point being I think they have pragmatically tried to drag a mentally shot group of players over the line. Although we can't be sure it is likely that has we not had lockdown the momentum (Leeds game aside) that was beginning to build may have seen us safe. What the games since lockdown has shown, in a very clear light, is just how many problems we have to solve. Irrespective of who you have as manager those problems are essentially the same. My concern is that we have witnessed what can happen when you don't have a coherent plan that everyone is aligned behind. I hope that we have learned and do have a clear strategy for moving the club forward, whatever division we are in. NB: If we drop to League 1 we still need a plan, we cannot allow the rot to set in any further. Relegation would be horrible but we need to pick ourselves up and start to move forward again. The worst case scenario is we scrape up and think "we'll be alright now" - all evidence suggests that we won't be. To be fair PH has said we need a reset so I am hopeful we have a plan for that. As sad as it may seem the Wagner era, as great as it was, is officially over. I make this point because it is still fresh in the memory and perhaps we think it will return, it won't. It is possibly the most difficult time to "reset" any business but that is what is required, and as I say we need a plan that can be delivered. It's going to be fascinating to see what happens - it's a challenge but also an opportunity. The final question is do we have the people in charge to embrace that opportunity and create something different that can try to be successful? My message to the club would be "give us something to believe in, that we can get behind, and build a new momentum". A lot of your post I agree with and there has to be a complete re think in many aspects but with the current situation both with no crowds whatever division we are in its going to be difficult to move unwantedplayers out or in but of course that applies to all clubs.I AGREE that the genuine fans have a right to feel let down but overall town are a good club which has lost its way but at least we still have a club lets hope our fortunes can turn and I wish the club well in what is a very difficult time allround
|
|
|
Post by joburgjon on Jul 16, 2020 12:22:28 GMT 1
No he isn't, 3 years ago possibly but certainly not now. He slows everything down and very rarely passes it anywhere other than backwards. If we go down I'd keep him as I think he'd better suited to that division, however, if we stay up I'd tr and offload him as he's not good enough for this division anymore. He's only here on sentiment, the same as Schindler and Kachunga. Thats just not true at all though. Its one of those perceptions that doesn;t have any relation to fact IMO. We had one killer ball played into the box at Hillsborough that set grant up with a good chance.. and it was Hogg that played it. Think if we were to release Hogg then just about every club in this division would take him if they could. Hes just the sort of player managers love. Sadly the facts are indeed that Hogg does play the majority of his passes backwards or sideways. I've watched him specifically on a good few occasions over the last 3 seasons. The majority of his passes are indeed backwards. Next come sideways passes. Followed finally by a small percentage of his passes being forward. His passes sideways are often behind a team mate. A number of his forward passes are either over or under hit. When teams sit deep against us Hogg is the main problem we have as he slows the play down and doesn't play forward enough or play quickly enough. All teams send scouts to do opposition analysis on us and this will be one of the main things they report. We try to build from the back, however, if it comes through Hogg the play slows down as he invariably passes sideways (often a poor pass behind his man) or passes backwards. This leads to a lack of movement ahead of him from his team mates. Allowing the opposition to regain their shape and mark stagnant players. If the team sit deep HTFC are unable to build quickly or play through the middle quickly. If you look at how we play, we often go from side to side. Very little comes through the middle. Due both to Hogg slowing the play down and not having a creative CM since loosing Mooy. Hogg's the type of player you sign if you are looking for a deep lying 6 to break up the play. However, he only really works if you have creative midfielders and wingers. Also, Hogg drops very, very deep. This leads to 2 things. Either lots of space in the middle for the opposition to attack (Town being over-run in midfield) or the 9, 10 and wide men having to come deep to collect the ball, which means we don't get men in the box. When we won promotion we had Mooy, Van La Parra and Palmer/Brown to give us the flair, creativity and drive. Currently we don't have anyone with Mooys creativity (consistantly), Van La Parra's flair and ability to transition quickly from defence to attach and ESR isn't having the same impact Palmer or Brown did as both of them offered us more than ESR currently is. Hogg was brilliant for us in the promotion season and did a job in the survival season. However, we either need to get more creativity, speed and flair in the team to play with him or he needs to move on.
|
|
|
Post by dm on Jul 16, 2020 12:32:33 GMT 1
There's a losing culture at this club and although individually many of the players are good enough, I don't think they believe they can win. That said, we shouldn't let them go for a song. E.g. Grant and o'Brien could still command good fees and we should not let them go for less than their value. A lot of new faces will need to come in, build a new culture at the club. For that to happen, we need a lot of players to leave. There are no sacred cows. This. For me, it sums up Lossl, Hogg, Schindler, Kachunga, Quaner and Pritchard. You can't see them turning it around and suddenly being top 8-10 players.
|
|
|
Post by clayts on Jul 16, 2020 12:51:20 GMT 1
There's a losing culture at this club and although individually many of the players are good enough, I don't think they believe they can win. That said, we shouldn't let them go for a song. E.g. Grant and o'Brien could still command good fees and we should not let them go for less than their value. A lot of new faces will need to come in, build a new culture at the club. For that to happen, we need a lot of players to leave. There are no sacred cows. This. For me, it sums up Lossl, Hogg, Schindler, Kachunga, Quaner and Pritchard. You can't see them turning it around and suddenly being top 8-10 players. Let's face it, it's a fucking disgrace that Quaner and Kachunga are still here.
|
|
|
Post by Porrohman on Jul 16, 2020 12:56:55 GMT 1
Thats just not true at all though. Its one of those perceptions that doesn;t have any relation to fact IMO. We had one killer ball played into the box at Hillsborough that set grant up with a good chance.. and it was Hogg that played it. Think if we were to release Hogg then just about every club in this division would take him if they could. Hes just the sort of player managers love. Sadly the facts are indeed that Hogg does play the majority of his passes backwards or sideways. I've watched him specifically on a good few occasions over the last 3 seasons. The majority of his passes are indeed backwards. Next come sideways passes. Followed finally by a small percentage of his passes being forward. His passes sideways are often behind a team mate. A number of his forward passes are either over or under hit. When teams sit deep against us Hogg is the main problem we have as he slows the play down and doesn't play forward enough or play quickly enough. All teams send scouts to do opposition analysis on us and this will be one of the main things they report. We try to build from the back, however, if it comes through Hogg the play slows down as he invariably passes sideways (often a poor pass behind his man) or passes backwards. This leads to a lack of movement ahead of him from his team mates. Allowing the opposition to regain their shape and mark stagnant players. If the team sit deep HTFC are unable to build quickly or play through the middle quickly. If you look at how we play, we often go from side to side. Very little comes through the middle. Due both to Hogg slowing the play down and not having a creative CM since loosing Mooy. Hogg's the type of player you sign if you are looking for a deep lying 6 to break up the play. However, he only really works if you have creative midfielders and wingers. Also, Hogg drops very, very deep. This leads to 2 things. Either lots of space in the middle for the opposition to attack (Town being over-run in midfield) or the 9, 10 and wide men having to come deep to collect the ball, which means we don't get men in the box. When we won promotion we had Mooy, Van La Parra and Palmer/Brown to give us the flair, creativity and drive. Currently we don't have anyone with Mooys creativity (consistantly), Van La Parra's flair and ability to transition quickly from defence to attach and ESR isn't having the same impact Palmer or Brown did as both of them offered us more than ESR currently is. Hogg was brilliant for us in the promotion season and did a job in the survival season. However, we either need to get more creativity, speed and flair in the team to play with him or he needs to move on. Mooy wasn't particularly creative, he wasn't full of assists or killer passes. He kept the ball superbly and was the metronome that set our tempo. This isn't meant to do him a disservice but he was always more of an 8 than a 10 (to use PE teacher bollock-eese 😁)
|
|
|
Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 16, 2020 13:02:36 GMT 1
This. For me, it sums up Lossl, Hogg, Schindler, Kachunga, Quaner and Pritchard. You can't see them turning it around and suddenly being top 8-10 players. Let's face it, it's a fucking disgrace that Quaner and Kachunga are still here. Not sure I'd single them out for criticism. They're not getting much game time and when they are they are both working there socks off. They are risking injury for no extra financial beneift and will probably soon be released If others - who have the security of a contract next season - showed the same applictaion since we came out of lockdown then I think we'd have 50 points already and be safe
|
|
|
Post by Henry Mcgee on Jul 16, 2020 13:06:38 GMT 1
Very surprised with the amount of people saying Hogg can go for them. Hogg is an extremely effective member of our team when deployed in the right role which is very reliant on the players around him taking on the roles he isn’t good at. Think of how good Hogg was at doing all the dirty work, running and winning the ball back when he played with Mooy. If we actually get the right type of players around him Hogg is a very valuable asset and we have the bonus that he clearly loves the club and will always give 100%. Other than Hogg I would keep O’Brien, Toff and possibly Schindler with the rest of the young lads like DD, Daly etc and build a team from there. I think this is the problem, Hogg looked good next to Mooy. We don't have or are likely to have anyone anywhere near as good as Mooy. He hasn't looked very good with Chalobah, O'Brien, King or Bacuna. They haven't looked very good with him either. He's coming up to 32, he's never been a great tackler hence the amount of bookings he's had in his career and he's going to get slower in to the tackles. I don't think he's a particularly good captain either, when the chips have been down over the past few years he's always been on the pitch but how many times have we turned a game around over the last 4 years or so? Even reading your post it sounds like we'd need to build a team around him to suit him, but is he really good enough to build a team around? This and absolutely this! Hogg was simply a limited but grafting midfielder - mid 20s - and then Mooy arrived and bingo, Hogg suddenly finds someone who can constantly take the ball off him and use it (he used to give him the ball from 2 yards away, like a centre back giving it to a midfielder). It freed Hogg up to be the stopper - the breaker upper - doing what he's good at. Now Mooy has gone and we're near the bottom of the division below, Hogg has to step up and be the main man and his allround game just isn't good enough. Expecting another Mooy to turn up and do it for him is unrealistic. He'll try his absolute best and give everything - that's unquestionable - I reluctantly criticise Hogg because of the effort he puts in and the affinity he clearly has for this club. However, we'll be paying Hogg a tidy sum (as with all those who played in the Prem) and, sadly, he just isn't worth the money without Mooy next to him. If he was on cheap wages I'd say keep him as a squad player, but the money he's on, he'll be a starter every week - and that's going to mean trouble. Having said all that, we won't sell him cause no-one will pay him what we're paying him.
|
|
|
Post by joeyjoneslocker on Jul 16, 2020 13:11:15 GMT 1
This. For me, it sums up Lossl, Hogg, Schindler, Kachunga, Quaner and Pritchard. You can't see them turning it around and suddenly being top 8-10 players. Let's face it, it's a fucking disgrace that Quaner and Kachunga are still here. That’s your opinion and entitled to it. Mine. Thats a ridiculously childish comment.
|
|
|
Post by johntheterrier on Jul 16, 2020 13:18:27 GMT 1
O Brien, Toffolo, Hogg, Schindler, Stearman.. theyre the only players we own that Id be sorry to see leave. But Id want to persevere with pritchard, partly because we'd lose a fortune on him if he left, but also because i think there is a player in there... hes proved that in the past at this level only 2 years ago. For whatever reason he hasnt shown it for us, but that player is still there somewhere. We'll be stuck with most of the rest as no ones going to either want them, or be prepared to offer them anything like the wages they get here. And I wouldnt change the manager even if we went down. It's 3 years now since Pritchard had a good season, the 16/17 season. The only other good season he's had in his career was the 14/15 season for Brentford. The most important thing for me is that in 61 appearances he's scored 3 and assisted 1. For a number 10 to have half as many assists as our goalkeeper (he has played 20 games less though I guess) is embarrassing. Agree with most of that, but the market is gonna be absolutely flooded with available players and 1,300 free agents they reckon. Some of the players we would love to jettison are gonna be harder to get rid of than haemorrhoids.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2020 13:48:59 GMT 1
How many of those 1300 free agents are going to be good enough for championship level?
How many good enough for top half championship which is what we'll be hopefully aiming for?
Probably whittles it down to about 20 players we might be interested in out of those 1300, for whom we'll have to compete with the rest of the teams in the championship to get.
|
|
|
Post by clayts on Jul 16, 2020 13:55:58 GMT 1
Let's face it, it's a fucking disgrace that Quaner and Kachunga are still here. That’s your opinion and entitled to it. Mine. Thats a ridiculously childish comment. Why is it? Neither have them have done anything for almost 3 years. We spent two years in the PL and never managed to recruit anyone better. It's pathetic.
|
|
|
Post by clayts on Jul 16, 2020 13:56:20 GMT 1
Let's face it, it's a fucking disgrace that Quaner and Kachunga are still here. Not sure I'd single them out for criticism. They're not getting much game time and when they are they are both working there socks off. They are risking injury for no extra financial beneift and will probably soon be released If others - who have the security of a contract next season - showed the same applictaion since we came out of lockdown then I think we'd have 50 points already and be safe Kachunga hasn't worked his socks off for weeks.
|
|
|
Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 16, 2020 13:56:29 GMT 1
How many of those 1300 free agents are going to be good enough for championship level? How many good enough for top half championship which is what we'll be hopefully aiming for? Probably whittles it down to about 20 players we might be interested in out of those 1300, for whom we'll have to compete with the rest of the teams in the championship to get. That's what worries me If Town wait for the market to come to them - miscalculating the offers top players will receive - we'll end up scrambling around at the end of the window signing players who couldn't get the better deals because they weren't good enough for them
|
|
|
Post by clayts on Jul 16, 2020 13:59:36 GMT 1
How many of those 1300 free agents are going to be good enough for championship level? How many good enough for top half championship which is what we'll be hopefully aiming for? Probably whittles it down to about 20 players we might be interested in out of those 1300, for whom we'll have to compete with the rest of the teams in the championship to get. That's what worries me If Town wait for the market to come to them - miscalculating the offers top players will receive - we'll end up scrambling around at the end of the window signing players who couldn't get the better deals because they weren't good enough for them Let's just give Quaner and Kachunga new 3 year deals like people seem to want.
|
|
|
Post by HuddsTerrier on Jul 16, 2020 14:01:40 GMT 1
That's what worries me If Town wait for the market to come to them - miscalculating the offers top players will receive - we'll end up scrambling around at the end of the window signing players who couldn't get the better deals because they weren't good enough for them Let's just give Quaner and Kachunga new 3 year deals like people seem to want. I haven't said that I do think you picked poor examples of players playing within themselves though
|
|
|
Post by Camel Grabber on Jul 16, 2020 14:06:55 GMT 1
Worst case for us is that we have numerous players on big contracts who we may not be able to move on right now. Kongolo Hadergjonaj Sobhi Diakhaby Mbenza Hamer (I think)
The wages these are on will have to be considered in our budget for next season. If we can get rid permanently, it will save us a hell of a lot of wages. Could probably pick up 6 more players, probably better than these, for cheaper.
Lets blood in REG and Daly, and this Phillips from Everton.
Focus on some height as we are a small team compared to others, apart from Mounie
|
|
|
Post by joburgjon on Jul 16, 2020 14:08:18 GMT 1
Sadly the facts are indeed that Hogg does play the majority of his passes backwards or sideways. I've watched him specifically on a good few occasions over the last 3 seasons. The majority of his passes are indeed backwards. Next come sideways passes. Followed finally by a small percentage of his passes being forward. His passes sideways are often behind a team mate. A number of his forward passes are either over or under hit. When teams sit deep against us Hogg is the main problem we have as he slows the play down and doesn't play forward enough or play quickly enough. All teams send scouts to do opposition analysis on us and this will be one of the main things they report. We try to build from the back, however, if it comes through Hogg the play slows down as he invariably passes sideways (often a poor pass behind his man) or passes backwards. This leads to a lack of movement ahead of him from his team mates. Allowing the opposition to regain their shape and mark stagnant players. If the team sit deep HTFC are unable to build quickly or play through the middle quickly. If you look at how we play, we often go from side to side. Very little comes through the middle. Due both to Hogg slowing the play down and not having a creative CM since loosing Mooy. Hogg's the type of player you sign if you are looking for a deep lying 6 to break up the play. However, he only really works if you have creative midfielders and wingers. Also, Hogg drops very, very deep. This leads to 2 things. Either lots of space in the middle for the opposition to attack (Town being over-run in midfield) or the 9, 10 and wide men having to come deep to collect the ball, which means we don't get men in the box. When we won promotion we had Mooy, Van La Parra and Palmer/Brown to give us the flair, creativity and drive. Currently we don't have anyone with Mooys creativity (consistantly), Van La Parra's flair and ability to transition quickly from defence to attach and ESR isn't having the same impact Palmer or Brown did as both of them offered us more than ESR currently is. Hogg was brilliant for us in the promotion season and did a job in the survival season. However, we either need to get more creativity, speed and flair in the team to play with him or he needs to move on. Mooy wasn't particularly creative, he wasn't full of assists or killer passes. He kept the ball superbly and was the metronome that set our tempo. This isn't meant to do him a disservice but he was always more of an 8 than a 10 (to use PE teacher bollock-eese 😁) Absolutely he was the 8. But he is a creative 8 who was always looking to play forward and was able to play at a consistently high level. We don't have anyone in the first team squad that can play that role consistently well at the moment. So that highlights Hoggs limitations as a very defensive minded 6.
|
|
|
Post by overtonterrierspirit on Jul 16, 2020 15:51:40 GMT 1
Mooy wasn't particularly creative, he wasn't full of assists or killer passes. He kept the ball superbly and was the metronome that set our tempo. This isn't meant to do him a disservice but he was always more of an 8 than a 10 (to use PE teacher bollock-eese 😁) Absolutely he was the 8. But he is a creative 8 who was always looking to play forward and was able to play at a consistently high level. We don't have anyone in the first team squad that can play that role consistently well at the moment. So that highlights Hoggs limitations as a very defensive minded 6. No! Please, not more Cowley speak! Absolutely no mention of the 4, 7 and 3 - some further diagnostic’s required to work out how to overload the left middle zone to allow progress to the left and centre front zone.
|
|
|
Post by Kenny irons on Jul 16, 2020 16:21:19 GMT 1
Squad needs a complete revamp from top to bottom. It would be easier to name who I would keep rather than who I would get shut of...
I would keep if possible without the loan players...
Schofield Toffolo Duhaney Daly Brown Edmonds green Obrien Bacuna Koroma Harratt Grant (if he wants to stay)
The rest can go
|
|
|
Post by lochnessterrier on Jul 16, 2020 17:19:44 GMT 1
All this talk of getting rid of the management team makes me bloody sick. Have we forgotten how much of a shambles they inherited? One point from eight games, here you go lads try working with this lot. Give them some financial backing and let them build their own team, in other words give them a bloody chance. Changing the manager every time the going gets tough just doesn't work. One point from six games. They actually did better with the team they inherited than they have with the players they've signed. We were doing well up until January, until they brought their own players in and it's got worse from then. One point from EIGHT games. Yes we were doing well, after they took over.
|
|
|
Post by clayts on Jul 16, 2020 17:27:53 GMT 1
One point from six games. They actually did better with the team they inherited than they have with the players they've signed. We were doing well up until January, until they brought their own players in and it's got worse from then. One point from EIGHT games. Yes we were doing well, after they took over. They were in charge for Game 7 and 8, or aren't we counting those? They arrived at a club that had ONE POINT FROM SIX GAMES.
|
|
|
Post by lochnessterrier on Jul 16, 2020 17:34:48 GMT 1
One point from EIGHT games. Yes we were doing well, after they took over. They were in charge for Game 7 and 8, or aren't we counting those? They arrived at a club that had ONE POINT FROM SIX GAMES. Ok I'll give you that, but I still say we were dead and buried when they took over.
|
|
|
Post by clayts on Jul 16, 2020 17:38:25 GMT 1
They were in charge for Game 7 and 8, or aren't we counting those? They arrived at a club that had ONE POINT FROM SIX GAMES. Ok I'll give you that, but I still say we were dead and buried when they took over. How can a team that is 4 points adrift and not even bottom of the table after 6 games be "dead and buried"?
|
|