|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 28, 2023 9:45:34 GMT 1
Considering how hush hush the deal is, which side leaked the bit about him saving us by writing off £40m 🤔 Hmm it's a puzzler 🤔 Id have certainly put the record straight if I was him. Anyone on here claiming they wouldn't?? |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 28, 2023 10:08:40 GMT 1
Pretty clear your 'understanding' turned out to be shit though didnt it. You were questioning someone integrity and honesty based on what.. some silly gossip you heard from a bloke down the pie shop? yet you still stand by everything you said apparently. What if the Yanks he was trying it on with were the first lot ? The mysterious multi grouped US interest that nobody actually knows about? I mainly dismissed the 'trying it on' claim as horseshit because it included the bizarre notion that Pure's administrators would be interested in dropping their claim on the clubs value if Hoyle did the same. They dont give two figs what Hoyle gets or not. Whats that got to do with them? Their only interest is what THEY get for the creditors they are working for. " Sorry, we got you nothing from that.. but dont worry, this guy accepted nothing too" Just because it fits the narrative people like, doesnt mean they shouldnt be able to recognise bollocks when they hear it surely, never mind be the mug who then spreads the bollocks on the internet. And then of course doesnt have the spine to retract it when its shown to be bollocks. |
|
|
|
Post by townarentbest on Mar 28, 2023 10:33:05 GMT 1
Id have certainly put the record straight if I was him. Anyone on here claiming they wouldn't?? No chance if it wasn't accurate that Dean would come out and say, "I'm not writing off £40m". Nobody at that level ever comments on stories like that - similarly historically I was chatting to an ex Finance Director at Town, he said at the time whenever they saw players wages mentioned in media (social or official), what was being quoted as weekly wage was more often than not closer to what players were raking in a month...but nobody, clubs or players, would EVER come out and say they were untrue - if they open their mouth it just ends up in a pointless conversation that they can't ever finish. Whether or not Dean has written off £40m, and whether or not he acknowledged or denied it now, the story will just become the accepted truth because its out there. Similarly to the story about Phil Hodgkinson's worth. Did Phil come out and say, "erm, no, I'm not and never have been close to being worth £360m"?! It would be easy to do so, its OBVIOUSLY inaccurate, but no matter how easy it is to demonstrate its inaccuracy, the accepted truth for ever, is that he was on a top 100 rich list with a figure of £360m. |
|
|
|
Post by Gag N Bone Man on Mar 28, 2023 10:34:25 GMT 1
Yes, because I believe it was true at the time I wrote it. My understanding is that he was telling the Pure admins they needed to write off what was due to them, and he would do the same, but telling the Yanks he wanted what was due to him if he got the Pure admins to write off their element. The Yanks got wind and threatened to walk. And as for "hope he never comes back", clearly I meant in a boardroom sense. As for my "character", I'm comfortable with it - if I felt I was out of order I'd say it. You probably wouldn't hear it, as your head would be too far up Hoyle's fundament, but hey... Pretty clear your 'understanding' turned out to be shit though didnt it. You were questioning someone integrity and honesty based on what.. some silly gossip you heard from a bloke down the pie shop? yet you still stand by everything you said apparently. Not pretty clear at all. It can have been true at the time and the situation can have changed. And my source is impeccable, pretty much never wrong with the very rare titbits they share. So yes, I stand by everything I said. Because I have the character to do so. Curios, what exactly does Dean's lower intestine taste of? |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 28, 2023 10:36:11 GMT 1
Sure you'd have it fried on a bap if you could.
Smothered in impeccable sauce.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gag N Bone Man on Mar 28, 2023 10:36:12 GMT 1
As for the £40m, I've just written off £40m I was never going to get as well. Anyone else?
|
|
|
|
Post by townarentbest on Mar 28, 2023 10:40:51 GMT 1
I mainly dismissed the 'trying it on' claim as horseshit because it included the bizarre notion that Pure's administrators would be interested in dropping their claim on the clubs value if Hoyle did the same. They dont give two figs what Hoyle gets or not. Whats that got to do with them? vvv What it potentially had to do with them is - IF Hoyle was prepared to write off £40m, he was potentially prepared to petition the club into administration (and he'd get back MORE THAN nothing in that case whereas they would definitely get nothing) that Wednesday and take the points deduction this season. Their interest then is that rather than allowing that, they've potentially got SOMETHING if they lower the guns and allowed the sale to go ahead without going via admin and a pre-packaged CVA. Let's face it, if he has written off £40m, and potentially sold the club for peanuts, he's effectively sold it via a Creditors Voluntary arrangement anyway, if not in actual name as far as the legalese is concerned - and via a method that has protected smaller creditors who would otherwise have lost out. ^^^ speculation
|
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 28, 2023 10:50:30 GMT 1
As for the £40m, I've just written off £40m I was never going to get as well. Anyone else? He could have got a lot of it back. He could have waited until the summer window and sold Nicholls, Thomas, Camara, Diarra.. anyone else with a transfer value and pocketed all the money. Probably get more than half of it back doing that. Club would have no value.. but hes passed it on with no value to him anyway. he could have put the club into administration and ended up with 5p in the £ or something. But yeah, you compare yourself to Hoyle if you like. You are a comedian after all. |
|
|
|
Post by townarentbest on Mar 28, 2023 10:59:19 GMT 1
As for the £40m, I've just written off £40m I was never going to get as well. Anyone else? He could have got a lot of it back. He could have waited until the summer window and sold Nicholls, Thomas, Camara, Diarra.. anyone else with a transfer value and pocketed all the money. Probably get more than half of it back doing that. Club would have no value.. but hes passed it on with no value to him anyway. he could have put the club into administration and ended up with 5p in the £ or something.But yeah, you compare yourself to Hoyle if you like. You are a comedian after all. The rules have changed, buyers of football clubs that are in administration must pay back creditors a minimum of 35p in the pound over three years (or 25p if transferred by shares). If this isn’t followed, there will be a 15 point deduction the next season. Putting the club into admin would likely have resulted in *higher* payment to Dean than what he has ultimately got (if the story about writing off his directors loans is correct). |
|
|
|
Post by dugnet on Mar 28, 2023 11:08:43 GMT 1
As for the £40m, I've just written off £40m I was never going to get as well. Anyone else? He could have got a lot of it back. He could have waited until the summer window and sold Nicholls, Thomas, Camara, Diarra.. anyone else with a transfer value and pocketed all the money. Probably get more than half of it back doing that. Club would have no value.. but hes passed it on with no value to him anyway. he could have put the club into administration and ended up with 5p in the £ or something. But yeah, you compare yourself to Hoyle if you like. You are a comedian after all. He could also have backed Carlos, kept the wage bill at last years' level and had a more saleable asset from which he could have recovered a reasonable amount. He has seemingly done the the honourable thing but he could have done something better for himself and, more than likely, left Town as a Championship club. I would imagine that the hiring of Warnock will be costing him something too. Whatever side of the debate you sit this season has been a peculiar/dopey strategy. As I have always said, not a bad man but very capable of making bad decisions. |
|
|
|
Post by Porrohman on Mar 28, 2023 12:15:44 GMT 1
What if the Yanks he was trying it on with were the first lot ? The mysterious multi grouped US interest that nobody actually knows about? I mainly dismissed the 'trying it on' claim as horseshit because it included the bizarre notion that Pure's administrators would be interested in dropping their claim on the clubs value if Hoyle did the same. They dont give two figs what Hoyle gets or not. Whats that got to do with them? Their only interest is what THEY get for the creditors they are working for. " Sorry, we got you nothing from that.. but dont worry, this guy accepted nothing too" Just because it fits the narrative people like, doesnt mean they shouldnt be able to recognise bollocks when they hear it surely, never mind be the mug who then spreads the bollocks on the internet. And then of course doesnt have the spine to retract it when its shown to be bollocks. But it hasn't been shown to be bollocks has it. You not believing it doesn't make it bollocks. |
|
|
|
Post by Porrohman on Mar 28, 2023 12:19:14 GMT 1
Id have certainly put the record straight if I was him. Anyone on here claiming they wouldn't?? Except you believe it's the truth and I believe it's more spin to make him look good and regain some affection from the fans |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 28, 2023 13:12:44 GMT 1
He could have got a lot of it back. He could have waited until the summer window and sold Nicholls, Thomas, Camara, Diarra.. anyone else with a transfer value and pocketed all the money. Probably get more than half of it back doing that. Club would have no value.. but hes passed it on with no value to him anyway. he could have put the club into administration and ended up with 5p in the £ or something. But yeah, you compare yourself to Hoyle if you like. You are a comedian after all. He has seemingly done the the honourable thing but he could have done something better for himself and, more than likely, left Town as a Championship club. I would imagine that the hiring of Warnock will be costing him something too. Whatever side of the debate you sit this season has been a peculiar/dopey strategy. As I have always said, not a bad man but very capable of making bad decisions. So he puts in another £15m-£20m or so on top of what hes already got in the club. ( If he even has it to put in.) Most likely result is that he'd just writing off £55m- £60m now instead of £40m. You might be happy for him to take that gamble with his money, but he wasnt. |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 28, 2023 13:16:24 GMT 1
He could have got a lot of it back. He could have waited until the summer window and sold Nicholls, Thomas, Camara, Diarra.. anyone else with a transfer value and pocketed all the money. Probably get more than half of it back doing that. Club would have no value.. but hes passed it on with no value to him anyway. he could have put the club into administration and ended up with 5p in the £ or something.But yeah, you compare yourself to Hoyle if you like. You are a comedian after all. The rules have changed, buyers of football clubs that are in administration must pay back creditors a minimum of 35p in the pound over three years (or 25p if transferred by shares). If this isn’t followed, there will be a 15 point deduction the next season. Putting the club into admin would likely have resulted in *higher* payment to Dean than what he has ultimately got (if the story about writing off his directors loans is correct). So he could have got about £15m back then by going into administration, but would have been terrible for the club? wont stop the haters hating. |
|
|
|
Post by dugnet on Mar 28, 2023 14:10:19 GMT 1
He could also have backed Carlos, kept the wage bill at last years' level and had a more saleable asset from which he could have recovered a reasonable amount. He has seemingly done the the honourable thing but he could have done something better for himself and, more than likely, left Town as a Championship club. I would imagine that the hiring of Warnock will be costing him something too. Whatever side of the debate you sit this season has been a peculiar/dopey strategy. As I have always said, not a bad man but very capable of making bad decisions. So he puts in another £15m-£20m or so on top of what hes already got in the club. ( If he even has it to put in.) Most likely result is that he'd just writing off £55m- £60m now instead of £40m. You might be happy for him to take that gamble with his money, but he wasnt. Aren't you contradicting your original point that he could have cashed in on our playing assets? Isn't it likely that those assets would have been worth more, than they are now. Or are you saying that backing Carlos wasn't likely to result in anything better than we have witnessed this season? I'm not sure that it would have cost the amount you are quoting either. No one factors in the additional revenue last season generated. When you consider the cost of sacking Schofield, Fotheringham and the hiring of Warnock you cannot surely argue that the plan for this season has looked ill thought through. Let me just say that I applaud the, albeit desperate, appointment of Warnock to try and maintain our Championship status. You cannot deny that the choices look flawed at best and plain daft at worst. I cannot deny it has likely cost him but it could have been avoided. He was also likely to recover more than he is apparently now doing. Your position on DH is staunch and consistent but you have to balance that with the obvious folly of the choices taken. I think it is an entirely fair observation I originally made. |
|
deepc
Tom Cowan Terrier
Posts: 689
|
Post by deepc on Mar 28, 2023 14:20:04 GMT 1
As for the £40m, I've just written off £40m I was never going to get as well. Anyone else? He could have got a lot of it back. He could have waited until the summer window and sold Nicholls, Thomas, Camara, Diarra.. anyone else with a transfer value and pocketed all the money. Probably get more than half of it back doing that. Club would have no value.. but hes passed it on with no value to him anyway. he could have put the club into administration and ended up with 5p in the £ or something. But yeah, you compare yourself to Hoyle if you like. You are a comedian after all.[ Hoping to get more than 20 mill in a fire sale from those four. Not a chance |
|
|
|
Post by townarentbest on Mar 28, 2023 15:07:45 GMT 1
The rules have changed, buyers of football clubs that are in administration must pay back creditors a minimum of 35p in the pound over three years (or 25p if transferred by shares). If this isn’t followed, there will be a 15 point deduction the next season. Putting the club into admin would likely have resulted in *higher* payment to Dean than what he has ultimately got (if the story about writing off his directors loans is correct). So he could have got about £15m back then by going into administration, but would have been terrible for the club? wont stop the haters hating. I figured that would be the angle, and its certainly worth bearing in mind...but likewise what we don't (and perhaps never will) know, is what cash consideration Dean has taken for his 100% via the sale process, that he'd not have had the opportunity to earn had he 'had to' go down the admin route...the two options could actually be very close in terms of how much the last 15 years has cost him *Although, on that could, I'd be surprised if any cash sale deal has valued the club at much more than £7.5m to £10m - which I guess is partly why there is this supposed PL bonus clause (which seems very bizarre to me - why should a previous owner benefit from a future owners success? although I can think of one scenario where the old and next owners would jointly decide this is a good idea, which I won't go into on here). *which to be fair, in real terms is NOT VERY MUCH, considering how much other folk who have decided to own football clubs have gone out of pocket after similar journeys. |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 28, 2023 15:39:37 GMT 1
So he puts in another £15m-£20m or so on top of what hes already got in the club. ( If he even has it to put in.) Most likely result is that he'd just writing off £55m- £60m now instead of £40m. You might be happy for him to take that gamble with his money, but he wasnt. I'm not sure that it would have cost the amount you are quoting either. No one factors in the additional revenue last season generated. When you consider the cost of sacking Schofield, Fotheringham and the hiring of Warnock you cannot surely argue that the plan for this season has looked ill thought through. Let me just say that I applaud the, albeit desperate, appointment of Warnock to try and maintain our Championship status. You cannot deny that the choices look flawed at best and plain daft at worst. I cannot deny it has likely cost him but it could have been avoided. He was also likely to recover more than he is apparently now doing. Your position on DH is staunch and consistent but you have to balance that with the obvious folly of the choices taken. I think it is an entirely fair observation I originally made. I was talking about him cashing in on those player assets now..well in the summer,, under these circumstances...just to show how the idea he had no way of getting money out of the club isnt true. He could have got quite a lot if he had the mind to. though I dont see how him spending and extra £xx millions last summer would increase the values of those players I mentioned. Probably have kept Camara and Diarra out of the side more if anything, so theirs would probably be less. Id imagine backing Carlos would have improved our position this season.... though Carlos would have left anyway I suspect if olympiacos came knocking, or anyone else he considered a bigger job. Think he'd made that intention pretty clear even before that play off final. I doubt the players who performed so well individually last season would have kept to that level and I doubt we'd have been as fortunate with injuries as we were last season either. So in all likelihood, for his extra £20m we might have finished half way... something along those lines... and just been harmorrageing a lot more money on a weekly basis ( carried by Hoyle of course) The plan for this season was an error... doesnt mean it wasnt thought through.. just that they got it wrong. And yes, it'll have meant DH has had to put more money in than he will have intended to back in August due to the hiring and firing of managers. But your argument, as ever, boils down to one man putting a lot more of his money into the club. Huge risk for him.. no risk for you. It would have been marvellous if he was able and prepared to make that huge gamble with his money... but he wasnt.. so just need to accept that IMO. Hopefully the next lot will be. |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 28, 2023 15:47:30 GMT 1
So he could have got about £15m back then by going into administration, but would have been terrible for the club? wont stop the haters hating. I figured that would be the angle, and its certainly worth bearing in mind...but likewise what we don't (and perhaps never will) know, is what cash consideration Dean has taken for his 100% via the sale process, that he'd not have had the opportunity to earn had he 'had to' go down the admin route...the two options could actually be very close in terms of how much the last 15 years has cost him *Although, on that could, I'd be surprised if any cash sale deal has valued the club at much more than £7.5m to £10m - which I guess is partly why there is this supposed PL bonus clause (which seems very bizarre to me - why should a previous owner benefit from a future owners success? although I can think of one scenario where the old and next owners would jointly decide this is a good idea, which I won't go into on here). *which to be fair, in real terms is NOT VERY MUCH, considering how much other folk who have decided to own football clubs have gone out of pocket after similar journeys. Suppose the payment if we get to the PL is an unusual thing ( or maybe it isnt but we never get to hear about such things ) When I read about that I presumed it was because the value of the club had been kept very low,,practically nothing perhaps... but both parties agreed that *IF* the club ever gets back onto that particular gravy train, it would be fair for Hoyle to see some financial benefit having taken such a monumental hit to get this deal done. |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 28, 2023 15:50:12 GMT 1
He could have got a lot of it back. He could have waited until the summer window and sold Nicholls, Thomas, Camara, Diarra.. anyone else with a transfer value and pocketed all the money. Probably get more than half of it back doing that. Club would have no value.. but hes passed it on with no value to him anyway. he could have put the club into administration and ended up with 5p in the £ or something. But yeah, you compare yourself to Hoyle if you like. You are a comedian after all.[ Hoping to get more than 20 mill in a fire sale from those four. Not a chance The value is only kept low, even in a fire sale , if only one club is interested. I think there'd be quite a bit of interest in all 4 of them. |
|
goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,611
|
Post by goodbet on Mar 28, 2023 16:29:05 GMT 1
The value is only kept low, even in a fire sale , if only one club is interested. I think there'd be quite a bit of interest in all 4 of them. I just can't see much value in a club that has very little in the way of assets. If there are 4 groups interested they will have a value in mind for Town and I guess 4 experienced business men not prepared to overpay for the privilege. All supposition! |
|
deepc
Tom Cowan Terrier
Posts: 689
|
Post by deepc on Mar 28, 2023 16:39:54 GMT 1
A 31 year old goalkeeper ,2 young kids with a handful of appearances between them and Thomas ,a player so out of form that we loaned him to another championship club?
I think Dean would be in for a bit of a shock if he thought he could recoup over half of his to be written off money from that foursome.
|
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 28, 2023 16:57:51 GMT 1
The value is only kept low, even in a fire sale , if only one club is interested. I think there'd be quite a bit of interest in all 4 of them. I just can't see much value in a club that has very little in the way of assets. If there are 4 groups interested they will have a value in mind for Town and I guess 4 experienced business men not prepared to overpay for the privilege. All supposition! Sorry mate, we were talking about those 4 players not the club itself. |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 28, 2023 17:03:15 GMT 1
A 31 year old goalkeeper ,2 young kids with a handful of appearances between them and Thomas ,a player so out of form that we loaned him to another championship club? I think Dean would be in for a bit of a shock if he thought he could recoup over half of his to be written off money from that foursome. 31 isnt old for a keeper. Got 5 or 6 years in him yet. I think there'd be a lot of interest in Nicholls ( expect there will be this summer ). Hes a stand out keeper IMO. Thomas is an odd one. Last summer he could have gone for £10-15m. That will have dropped but if hes playing well for blackburn ( no idea if he is ) then id still expect something approaching £8m for him at the age he is. the two young lads? Who knows. The papers were linking Jackson to rangers last window for £1.5m, so its reasonable to assume these lads who are catching the eye will have a decent value. |
|
prepare
Darren Bullock Terrier
Posts: 952
|
Post by prepare on Mar 28, 2023 18:01:59 GMT 1
What if the Yanks he was trying it on with were the first lot ? The mysterious multi grouped US interest that nobody actually knows about? I mainly dismissed the 'trying it on' claim as horseshit because it included the bizarre notion that Pure's administrators would be interested in dropping their claim on the clubs value if Hoyle did the same. They dont give two figs what Hoyle gets or not. Whats that got to do with them? Their only interest is what THEY get for the creditors they are working for. " Sorry, we got you nothing from that.. but dont worry, this guy accepted nothing too" Just because it fits the narrative people like, doesnt mean they shouldnt be able to recognise bollocks when they hear it surely, never mind be the mug who then spreads the bollocks on the internet. And then of course doesnt have the spine to retract it when its shown to be bollocks. just move on whether he has are hasnt I’m not bothered let’s just give it a rest |
|
|
|
Post by dugnet on Mar 29, 2023 8:10:16 GMT 1
Aren't you contradicting your original point that he could have cashed in on our playing assets? Isn't it likely that those assets would have been worth more, than they are now. Or are you saying that backing Carlos wasn't likely to result in anything better than we have witnessed this season?I'm not sure that it would have cost the amount you are quoting either. No one factors in the additional revenue last season generated. When you consider the cost of sacking Schofield, Fotheringham and the hiring of Warnock you cannot surely argue that the plan for this season has looked ill thought through. Let me just say that I applaud the, albeit desperate, appointment of Warnock to try and maintain our Championship status. You cannot deny that the choices look flawed at best and plain daft at worst. I cannot deny it has likely cost him but it could have been avoided. He was also likely to recover more than he is apparently now doing. Your position on DH is staunch and consistent but you have to balance that with the obvious folly of the choices taken. I think it is an entirely fair observation I originally made. I was talking about him cashing in on those player assets now..well in the summer,, under these circumstances...just to show how the idea he had no way of getting money out of the club isnt true. He could have got quite a lot if he had the mind to. though I dont see how him spending and extra £xx millions last summer would increase the values of those players I mentioned. Probably have kept Camara and Diarra out of the side more if anything, so theirs would probably be less. Id imagine backing Carlos would have improved our position this season.... though Carlos would have left anyway I suspect if olympiacos came knocking, or anyone else he considered a bigger job. Think he'd made that intention pretty clear even before that play off final. I doubt the players who performed so well individually last season would have kept to that level and I doubt we'd have been as fortunate with injuries as we were last season either. So in all likelihood, for his extra £20m we might have finished half way... something along those lines... and just been harmorrageing a lot more money on a weekly basis ( carried by Hoyle of course) The plan for this season was an error... doesnt mean it wasnt thought through.. just that they got it wrong. And yes, it'll have meant DH has had to put more money in than he will have intended to back in August due to the hiring and firing of managers. But your argument, as ever, boils down to one man putting a lot more of his money into the club. Huge risk for him.. no risk for you. It would have been marvellous if he was able and prepared to make that huge gamble with his money... but he wasnt.. so just need to accept that IMO. Hopefully the next lot will be. I respectfully disagree. You could take the view you have on Carlos but equally it could have been he was seeking assurances about the future and expressed his concerns. I also don't agree with the numbers you quote but in "investing" the value of the players in the squad, of even a middling Championship team, would have been at least retained. Those values would have been part of the saleable assets and increased the, estimated, net value of the team. I used the words "ill thought through", as opposed to not thought through. I can believe the target was to stay in the league but reduce the budget. However that was risky given the loss of the leader (Carlos) and key players. What transpired has been a mess which has likely cost DH just as much, if not mote (than if he had kept Carlos). The narrative watching Town has been a linked two sided story this season, the two sides being; what we see on the pitch every week and the ongoing pantomime behind the scenes. Both have been disparaging at best. This season has been the culmination of very poor choices essentially since May 17. I don't say that to hang DH out to dry but as I think it is true. You say I continually expect DH to put his hand in his pocket. You know full well, although I appreciate you won't accept this, that isn't the case. I have always said he needs to use the money available wisely. My assessment of this season is had he done so he would have had a more saleable asset. He would likely have recovered more cash. Additionally we might not have witnessed the utter dross we have seen on the pitch this season. I appreciate, which I have said before, that I don't know his personal circumstances. If I did I am more than capable of being entirely empathetic to that and form my opinion accordingly. I would note that he doesn't have to make that public but it's equally difficult to have empathy with someone who doesn't tell you what's going on. This season has been wretched and I feel it could have been avoided. It wasn't and it is what it is. DH has done many great things but he's also presided over some very poor outcomes too. However people express their frustration this is the bottom line. I respect your support for the man bur your line of defence/argument ignores much of truth. It is that truth people are animated about. We hopefully have a new outlook and a new direction. Hopefully that enables the club to go forward and ultimately look back on the DH years for all the good things. Nostalgia works best when looking back to smile. |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 29, 2023 8:58:53 GMT 1
I respectfully disagree. You could take the view you have on Carlos but equally it could have been he was seeking assurances about the future and expressed his concerns. I also don't agree with the numbers you quote but in "investing" the value of the players in the squad, of even a middling Championship team, would have been at least retained. Those values would have been part of the saleable assets and increased the, estimated, net value of the team. I used the words "ill thought through", as opposed to not thought through. I can believe the target was to stay in the league but reduce the budget. However that was risky given the loss of the leader (Carlos) and key players. What transpired has been a mess which has likely cost DH just as much, if not mote (than if he had kept Carlos). The narrative watching Town has been a linked two sided story this season, the two sides being; what we see on the pitch every week and the ongoing pantomime behind the scenes. Both have been disparaging at best. This season has been the culmination of very poor choices essentially since May 17. I don't say that to hang DH out to dry but as I think it is true. You say I continually expect DH to put his hand in his pocket. You know full well, although I appreciate you won't accept this, that isn't the case. I have always said he needs to use the money available wisely. My assessment of this season is had he done so he would have had a more saleable asset. He would likely have recovered more cash. Additionally we might not have witnessed the utter dross we have seen on the pitch this season. I appreciate, which I have said before, that I don't know his personal circumstances. If I did I am more than capable of being entirely empathetic to that and form my opinion accordingly. I would note that he doesn't have to make that public but it's equally difficult to have empathy with someone who doesn't tell you what's going on. This season has been wretched and I feel it could have been avoided. It wasn't and it is what it is. DH has done many great things but he's also presided over some very poor outcomes too. However people express their frustration this is the bottom line. I respect your support for the man bur your line of defence/argument ignores much of truth. It is that truth people are animated about. We hopefully have a new outlook and a new direction. Hopefully that enables the club to go forward and ultimately look back on the DH years for all the good things. Nostalgia works best when looking back to smile. I guessed you might!  Think last season Hoyle had to inject about £5m. Since then we've had our income drop something like 70% by losing the £15m parachute money and even though weve earned around £8m in player sales and reduced the wage budget a lot, Hoyle is still having to inject millions. If youre wanting the same budget as last season and to 'back the manager' then there is a £20m+ shortfall somewhere and only one place it was ever going to come from....I dont need to tell you where that is. So, theres a reason why I always say that you continually expect Hoyle to put his hands in his pockets... because you do mate! And there it is again. You might see the logic in doing that.. of taking that gamble in the ( minimal IMO ) hope of success.. but its really easy to say that when it isnt your money. This season has been a culmination of bad decisions. No different from any club thats struggling really. No one planned for them to be bad decisions and on the face of it many of them really shouldnt have been.... Mbete should have been as good as Colwill....The Japanese international should have been a good replacement for Toffolo... But yeah, a lot of decisions turned out to be mistakes or not successful for some other reason... and its perfectly understandable that fans are frustrated by that. Im no different. |
|
goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,611
|
Post by goodbet on Mar 29, 2023 12:38:34 GMT 1
I respectfully disagree. You could take the view you have on Carlos but equally it could have been he was seeking assurances about the future and expressed his concerns. I also don't agree with the numbers you quote but in "investing" the value of the players in the squad, of even a middling Championship team, would have been at least retained. Those values would have been part of the saleable assets and increased the, estimated, net value of the team. I used the words "ill thought through", as opposed to not thought through. I can believe the target was to stay in the league but reduce the budget. However that was risky given the loss of the leader (Carlos) and key players. What transpired has been a mess which has likely cost DH just as much, if not mote (than if he had kept Carlos). The narrative watching Town has been a linked two sided story this season, the two sides being; what we see on the pitch every week and the ongoing pantomime behind the scenes. Both have been disparaging at best. This season has been the culmination of very poor choices essentially since May 17. I don't say that to hang DH out to dry but as I think it is true. You say I continually expect DH to put his hand in his pocket. You know full well, although I appreciate you won't accept this, that isn't the case. I have always said he needs to use the money available wisely. My assessment of this season is had he done so he would have had a more saleable asset. He would likely have recovered more cash. Additionally we might not have witnessed the utter dross we have seen on the pitch this season. I appreciate, which I have said before, that I don't know his personal circumstances. If I did I am more than capable of being entirely empathetic to that and form my opinion accordingly. I would note that he doesn't have to make that public but it's equally difficult to have empathy with someone who doesn't tell you what's going on. This season has been wretched and I feel it could have been avoided. It wasn't and it is what it is. DH has done many great things but he's also presided over some very poor outcomes too. However people express their frustration this is the bottom line. I respect your support for the man bur your line of defence/argument ignores much of truth. It is that truth people are animated about. We hopefully have a new outlook and a new direction. Hopefully that enables the club to go forward and ultimately look back on the DH years for all the good things. Nostalgia works best when looking back to smile. I guessed you might! Think last season Hoyle had to inject about £5m. Since then we've had our income drop something like 70% by losing the £15m parachute money and even though weve earned around £8m in player sales and reduced the wage budget a lot, Hoyle is still having to inject millions. If youre wanting the same budget as last season and to 'back the manager' then there is a £20m+ shortfall somewhere and only one place it was ever going to come from....I dont need to tell you where that is. So, theres a reason why I always say that you continually expect Hoyle to put his hands in his pockets... because you do mate! And there it is again. You might see the logic in doing that.. of taking that gamble in the ( minimal IMO ) hope of success.. but its really easy to say that when it isnt your money. This season has been a culmination of bad decisions. No different from any club thats struggling really. No one planned for them to be bad decisions and on the face of it many of them really shouldnt have been.... Mbete should have been as good as Colwill....The Japanese international should have been a good replacement for Toffolo... But yeah, a lot of decisions turned out to be mistakes or not successful for some other reason... and its perfectly understandable that fans are frustrated by that. Im no different. I have said before on this site and I will keep reminding everyone that in life and especially in football you stand still you get bypassed. This year to took one almighty leap backwards and it can not be surprise to anyone that we are where we are. We have been chasing long shots and occasionally they come off, but we just cant depend on every transfer we make comming up trumps. Due to our budget and not having a scouting network we make two kinds of signings in the main, gambles or old past it Town players. Statements like "Mbete should have been as good as Colwill" are pointless. We caught Colwill at the right time, Mbete may well turn out to be a better player in the long run, but we did not get him just as he was ready to step up a level or two. |
|
|
|
Post by Captainslapper on Mar 29, 2023 13:15:22 GMT 1
I guessed you might! Think last season Hoyle had to inject about £5m. Since then we've had our income drop something like 70% by losing the £15m parachute money and even though weve earned around £8m in player sales and reduced the wage budget a lot, Hoyle is still having to inject millions. If youre wanting the same budget as last season and to 'back the manager' then there is a £20m+ shortfall somewhere and only one place it was ever going to come from....I dont need to tell you where that is. So, theres a reason why I always say that you continually expect Hoyle to put his hands in his pockets... because you do mate! And there it is again. You might see the logic in doing that.. of taking that gamble in the ( minimal IMO ) hope of success.. but its really easy to say that when it isnt your money. This season has been a culmination of bad decisions. No different from any club thats struggling really. No one planned for them to be bad decisions and on the face of it many of them really shouldnt have been.... Mbete should have been as good as Colwill....The Japanese international should have been a good replacement for Toffolo... But yeah, a lot of decisions turned out to be mistakes or not successful for some other reason... and its perfectly understandable that fans are frustrated by that. Im no different. I have said before on this site and I will keep reminding everyone that in life and especially in football you stand still you get bypassed. This year to took one almighty leap backwards and it can not be surprise to anyone that we are where we are. We have been chasing long shots and occasionally they come off, but we just cant depend on every transfer we make comming up trumps. Due to our budget and not having a scouting network we make two kinds of signings in the main, gambles or old past it Town players. Statements like "Mbete should have been as good as Colwill" are pointless. We caught Colwill at the right time, Mbete may well turn out to be a better player in the long run, but we did not get him just as he was ready to step up a level or two. Its only pointless in hindsight. At the time you are trying to replace colwill ( because we had zero option to keep him ) then its perfectly understandable the club would look at Mbete and believe he would be a similar standard player to bring in on loan. Same with believing a current japanese international would be an adequate replacement for Toffolo. We can all be wise after the event. |
|
goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,611
|
Post by goodbet on Mar 29, 2023 19:22:18 GMT 1
I have said before on this site and I will keep reminding everyone that in life and especially in football you stand still you get bypassed. This year to took one almighty leap backwards and it can not be surprise to anyone that we are where we are. We have been chasing long shots and occasionally they come off, but we just cant depend on every transfer we make comming up trumps. Due to our budget and not having a scouting network we make two kinds of signings in the main, gambles or old past it Town players. Statements like "Mbete should have been as good as Colwill" are pointless. We caught Colwill at the right time, Mbete may well turn out to be a better player in the long run, but we did not get him just as he was ready to step up a level or two. Its only pointless in hindsight. At the time you are trying to replace colwill ( because we had zero option to keep him ) then its perfectly understandable the club would look at Mbete and believe he would be a similar standard player to bring in on loan. Same with believing a current japanese international would be an adequate replacement for Toffolo. We can all be wise after the event. Yes we get 20/20 vision when we have hindsight. We had a thin squad and we took some more gambles, you just cant assume that because we got a young defender from Chelsea one year we can get just as good a player from Man City the next. You have more of a case with the Japanese International but that only helps if you can do the same with every other transfer. I pointed out at the time we had lost the leadership the drive, energy and pace from the team and replaced them with young punts. Again I mentioned that if you stand still in football you are actually going backwards. We did not stand still we took a large step backwards and that was not said in hindsight. |
|
