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Post by philatrickstarbuck on Mar 29, 2023 19:28:59 GMT 1
Yawn
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Post by brighousebandbred on Mar 29, 2023 19:36:59 GMT 1
Time to move on , thread needs deleting.DH is leaving the building the future is the chat. All that has gone as gone move on.
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 29, 2023 20:03:33 GMT 1
Its only pointless in hindsight. At the time you are trying to replace colwill ( because we had zero option to keep him ) then its perfectly understandable the club would look at Mbete and believe he would be a similar standard player to bring in on loan. Same with believing a current japanese international would be an adequate replacement for Toffolo. We can all be wise after the event. Yes we get 20/20 vision when we have hindsight. We had a thin squad and we took some more gambles, you just cant assume that because we got a young defender from Chelsea one year we can get just as good a player from Man City the next. You have more of a case with the Japanese International but that only helps if you can do the same with every other transfer. I pointed out at the time we had lost the leadership the drive, energy and pace from the team and replaced them with young punts. Again I mentioned that if you stand still in football you are actually going backwards. We did not stand still we took a large step backwards and that was not said in hindsight. LOB was a loss and one we didnt adequately replace ... but how do you replace a £8m player with a player who is free or less than £1m if thats what your finances dictate you have to do? Losing him.. IMO our 4th best player last season...although a big loss, shouldnt have resulted in the slump weve seen. I think its perfectly reasonable to assume Mbete would be of a certain standard ( comparable to Colwill in this case ) . England U20 who's been on man city's bench a couple of dozen times...I thought he'd be a really good player just because logically , you dont get to that level without being. He did prove me wrong though.. and HTFC and maybe MCFC too. |
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 29, 2023 20:06:25 GMT 1
IMO our 4th best player last season. Go on then, humour me.  |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 29, 2023 20:09:12 GMT 1
IMO our 4th best player last season. Go on then, humour me. You think he was our best? Id put him behind Nicholls, Thomas and Lees... If 3 players made the biggest contribution to us finishing 3rd it was those 3 IMO. |
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 29, 2023 20:17:30 GMT 1
You think he was our best? Id put him behind Nicholls, Thomas and Lees... If 3 players made the biggest contribution to us finishing 3rd it was those 3 IMO. I think he was the player we have missed the most. An absolute catalyst. Very difficult to replace those kind of players. The three you name all had stand out, excellent seasons without getting anywhere near those levels again this season, but O'Brien is another level, as evidenced by his transfer fee. |
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
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Post by goodbet on Mar 29, 2023 20:43:01 GMT 1
Yes we get 20/20 vision when we have hindsight. We had a thin squad and we took some more gambles, you just cant assume that because we got a young defender from Chelsea one year we can get just as good a player from Man City the next. You have more of a case with the Japanese International but that only helps if you can do the same with every other transfer. I pointed out at the time we had lost the leadership the drive, energy and pace from the team and replaced them with young punts. Again I mentioned that if you stand still in football you are actually going backwards. We did not stand still we took a large step backwards and that was not said in hindsight. LOB was a loss and one we didnt adequately replace ... but how do you replace a £8m player with a player who is free or less than £1m if thats what your finances dictate you have to do? Losing him.. IMO our 4th best player last season...although a big loss, shouldnt have resulted in the slump weve seen. I think its perfectly reasonable to assume Mbete would be of a certain standard ( comparable to Colwill in this case ) . England U20 who's been on man city's bench a couple of dozen times...I thought he'd be a really good player just because logically , you dont get to that level without being. He did prove me wrong though.. and HTFC and maybe MCFC too. If one of these was our 4th best player we should have sold at least another £24M worth of players, as we didn't I assume no professional managers agreed with you. I think that in total 11 players left last season and in just two of those we lost our leadership the drive, energy and pace from the team. If we invested wisely we shouldn't have seen the slump we have, but we have. We also lost out manager/coach, I know you said he would have left anyway, but as it is I have to say I couldn't blame him. I would not have stopped had I seen what our plans were, it would have ruined the hard work he put in last season and damaged his standing. We just weren't ready at the start of the season unfit, with a coach who was way out of his depth. At the back end of the window the club realised that we were in trouble and made some signings that we all hoped would keep us up. At this time we were still well behind the curve and we got rid of Schofield about 7 games too late . The moral was low and the club installed another gamble to lead the team. We kept him on until the January window was over and wasted another opportunity to turn things around. Managing business that you are trying to sell, we seem to have made the worst decisions we could have. The value of the club has been destroyed (I guess by £30M) and the owner has had to write off his money that he has invested in to the club because we are on the brink of the drop to the third tier. So "shouldn't have resulted in the slump", we need to learn that when you are in a hole you should stop digging. |
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Post by Porrohman on Mar 29, 2023 20:49:48 GMT 1
I have said before on this site and I will keep reminding everyone that in life and especially in football you stand still you get bypassed. This year to took one almighty leap backwards and it can not be surprise to anyone that we are where we are. We have been chasing long shots and occasionally they come off, but we just cant depend on every transfer we make comming up trumps. Due to our budget and not having a scouting network we make two kinds of signings in the main, gambles or old past it Town players. Statements like "Mbete should have been as good as Colwill" are pointless. We caught Colwill at the right time, Mbete may well turn out to be a better player in the long run, but we did not get him just as he was ready to step up a level or two. Its only pointless in hindsight. At the time you are trying to replace colwill ( because we had zero option to keep him ) then its perfectly understandable the club would look at Mbete and believe he would be a similar standard player to bring in on loan. Same with believing a current japanese international would be an adequate replacement for Toffolo. We can all be wise after the event. Yuta was every bit as good as Toffolo was during the same period, last season. Toffolo only came alive for the last couple of months. |
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Post by Porrohman on Mar 29, 2023 20:53:24 GMT 1
You think he was our best? Id put him behind Nicholls, Thomas and Lees... If 3 players made the biggest contribution to us finishing 3rd it was those 3 IMO. I think he was the player we have missed the most. An absolute catalyst. Very difficult to replace those kind of players. The three you name all had stand out, excellent seasons without getting anywhere near those levels again this season, but O'Brien is another level, as evidenced by his transfer fee. And Forest realising that they'd bought a duracell bunny that's passing and finishing was poor and bombing him out to the point he's gone to near on non league standard to get a game |
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 29, 2023 20:56:24 GMT 1
And Forest realising that they'd bought a duracell bunny that's passing and finishing was poor and bombing him out to the point he's gone to near on non league standard to get a game More spin than a turbo-charged Zanussi. When did he shaft your better half, then? |
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Post by Porrohman on Mar 29, 2023 21:05:37 GMT 1
And Forest realising that they'd bought a duracell bunny that's passing and finishing was poor and bombing him out to the point he's gone to near on non league standard to get a game More spin than a turbo-charged Zanussi. When did he shaft your better half, then? Which bit is spin ? |
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 29, 2023 21:17:26 GMT 1
All of it.
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Post by workshyfop on Mar 29, 2023 21:30:13 GMT 1
Losing CC and LOB has caused us to go from third to third bottom, all the rest is just gossip.
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ldr
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by ldr on Mar 29, 2023 21:36:28 GMT 1
You think he was our best? Id put him behind Nicholls, Thomas and Lees... If 3 players made the biggest contribution to us finishing 3rd it was those 3 IMO. I think he was the player we have missed the most. An absolute catalyst. Very difficult to replace those kind of players. The three you name all had stand out, excellent seasons without getting anywhere near those levels again this season, but O'Brien is another level, as evidenced by his transfer fee. This. O’Brien made us tick and for that reason, he was our most valuable player. I’m almost feeling American after that. |
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Post by space hardware on Mar 29, 2023 21:36:47 GMT 1
Its only pointless in hindsight. At the time you are trying to replace colwill ( because we had zero option to keep him ) then its perfectly understandable the club would look at Mbete and believe he would be a similar standard player to bring in on loan. Same with believing a current japanese international would be an adequate replacement for Toffolo. We can all be wise after the event. Yuta was every bit as good as Toffolo was during the same period, last season. Toffolo only came alive for the last couple of months. Toffolo at his worst was better than Nakayama at his best. Sorry, but the guy was poor. He was improving before he got injured though. |
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Post by Porrohman on Mar 29, 2023 21:42:58 GMT 1
You think he could pass and finish ? |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 29, 2023 21:43:46 GMT 1
You think he was our best? Id put him behind Nicholls, Thomas and Lees... If 3 players made the biggest contribution to us finishing 3rd it was those 3 IMO. I think he was the player we have missed the most. An absolute catalyst. Very difficult to replace those kind of players. The three you name all had stand out, excellent seasons without getting anywhere near those levels again this season, but O'Brien is another level, as evidenced by his transfer fee. I’d agree, of the players who left he is the one we’ve missed most, by some distance. I’m not sure O’Brien is another level at all. Only one PL side wanted him and they’ve quickly labelled him surplus to requirements. His next club will be in this division. It’s more likely that Thomas and nicholls next clubs will be in the PL than LOB I reckon. Obviously Lees is of an age where it doesn’t really effect him. |
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 29, 2023 21:44:32 GMT 1
I’m almost feeling American after that. High five, dude!  |
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Post by space hardware on Mar 29, 2023 21:47:02 GMT 1
I think he was the player we have missed the most. An absolute catalyst. Very difficult to replace those kind of players. The three you name all had stand out, excellent seasons without getting anywhere near those levels again this season, but O'Brien is another level, as evidenced by his transfer fee. I’d agree, of the players who left he is the one we’ve missed most, by some distance. I’m not sure O’Brien is another level at all. Only one PL side wanted him and they’ve quickly labelled him surplus to requirements. His next club will be in this division. It’s more likely that Thomas and nicholls next clubs will be in the PL than LOB I reckon. Obviously Lees is of an age where it doesn’t really effect him. As much as I rate him, I see Nicholls as a top end Championship goalkeeper, no more. Thomas isn't ripping up trees at Blackburn so I'd say the same with him. I don't see any of our current squad making the step up to PL level, TBH. |
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 29, 2023 21:48:53 GMT 1
You think he could pass and finish ? Good enough to do his job. He's no Van Basten but he's not a striker. |
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ldr
Andy Booth Terrier
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Post by ldr on Mar 29, 2023 21:50:33 GMT 1
You think he could pass and finish ? His finishing left something to be desired and I was always concerned about his short passing. He seemed to have a strange knack of leaving the receiving player with far too much to do. But…he was a ultra positive player, extremely combative, hard when he needed to be, always looking to get on the front foot, decent at the dark arts and always involved. He gave us energy and I really how 3pipes described him as a catalyst. |
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ldr
Andy Booth Terrier
Posts: 3,196
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Post by ldr on Mar 29, 2023 21:52:23 GMT 1
I’m almost feeling American after that. High five, dude! God damn motha fuckers on here know zip about soccer dude! Go figure! |
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 29, 2023 21:53:10 GMT 1
Obviously Lees is of an age where it doesn’t really effect him. I think Colwill brought out the best in Lees or at least complimented him to the point he stepped up his performances. How else can you explain such a drop off in quality? |
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Wagner Uber Alles
Steve Kindon Terrier
Unterstützt die Stadt seit 1970.
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Post by Wagner Uber Alles on Mar 29, 2023 21:58:12 GMT 1
Time to move on , thread needs deleting.DH is leaving the building the future is the chat. All that has gone as gone move on.
Let's rename it the Doomsday Thread and archive it...until 3-5 years from now.
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 29, 2023 22:00:01 GMT 1
I’d agree, of the players who left he is the one we’ve missed most, by some distance. I’m not sure O’Brien is another level at all. Only one PL side wanted him and they’ve quickly labelled him surplus to requirements. His next club will be in this division. Through no fault of his own IMO. Terrible move on his part, joining a club in flux with such a scattergun transfer policy. His performances for t'trees didn't warrant his treatment IMO. Some bad luck too the way his loan deal fell through. I don't see how posters can level that against him. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 30, 2023 0:09:12 GMT 1
Obviously Lees is of an age where it doesn’t really effect him. I think Colwill brought out the best in Lees or at least complimented him to the point he stepped up his performances. How else can you explain such a drop off in quality? He started the season badly and has improved but not back to last seasons levels. I think he was a big victim of the psychological hangover from Wembley...maybe in his case because he probably saw it as his last chance to get to the PL. Wasnt that the 3rd or 4th time hes failed in the play offs? He wasnt alone... nearly all last seasons players had a drop off in form. I thought Turton was the only one who didnt.. but he got badly injured anyway. Colwill only started about half the games.. he wasnt that regular a fixture. He was a good compliment to Lees though,, so was Pearson. But IMO Lees was the star of that defence. Just consistently excellent all season. |
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Post by Captainslapper on Mar 30, 2023 0:17:13 GMT 1
I’d agree, of the players who left he is the one we’ve missed most, by some distance. I’m not sure O’Brien is another level at all. Only one PL side wanted him and they’ve quickly labelled him surplus to requirements. His next club will be in this division. Through no fault of his own IMO. Terrible move on his part, joining a club in flux with such a scattergun transfer policy. His performances for t'trees didn't warrant his treatment IMO. Some bad luck too the way his loan deal fell through. I don't see how posters can level that against him. He wasnt listening to the instructions they gave him.. or was listening but just wasnt doing it. Thats whats cost him his place there. My mate has a source in the forest coaching staff. So they'd say it was his fault why they ditched him. He might have stood a better chance to make the PL grade at a different club if one had followed up their interest and wanted him. I rate him a lot but probably as a very good championship player. Think in the PL in the box to box midfield role you've got to have a bit more quality than LOB has.. a bit more end result. But hes still an age where he can improve that yet, so who knows he might still succeed if he gets another crack at it. |
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 30, 2023 6:39:57 GMT 1
He wasnt listening to the instructions they gave him.. or was listening but just wasnt doing it. Thats whats cost him his place there. My mate has a source in the forest coaching staff. So they'd say it was his fault why they ditched him. I'd say it was their fault for targeting the wrong player. I'm guessing they wanted him to hold back and play more of a defensive role while O'Brien is your box to box transition player who'll drive the play forward. Club's fault for not doing due diligence in scouting the right kind of player for the task in hand. |
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Post by 3Pipe on Mar 30, 2023 6:42:58 GMT 1
I rate him a lot but probably as a very good championship player. Think in the PL in the box to box midfield role you've got to have a bit more quality than LOB has.. a bit more end result. But hes still an age where he can improve that yet, so who knows he might still succeed if he gets another crack at it. I agree with much of this. Top end Championship player / bottom half Premier League player, I'd say. I don't think he's going to improve a whole lot more now. |
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goodbet
Jimmy Glazzard Terrier
Posts: 4,611
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Post by goodbet on Mar 30, 2023 9:44:28 GMT 1
I rate him a lot but probably as a very good championship player. Think in the PL in the box to box midfield role you've got to have a bit more quality than LOB has.. a bit more end result. But hes still an age where he can improve that yet, so who knows he might still succeed if he gets another crack at it. I agree with much of this. Top end Championship player / bottom half Premier League player, I'd say. I don't think he's going to improve a whole lot more now. I saw LoB play for Notts and he did not seem to fit in with the other players, he got in to good positions but for some reason was never picked out. They may have not trusted him or thought that he was not good enough, I can't say, but it was not a good fit for him. |
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