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Post by irverino on Nov 16, 2023 10:58:25 GMT 1
Greaves was wonderful at a time in the seventies, he went on to prove he was no 'one hit wonder' & achieved top flight success with Bolton, it would not surprise me in the least if DW did managed in the PL once again.......Norwich play three of the leagues worst teams at home before to Xmas, surely 3 gifts for David plus 9 (or nein) points. They already lost to Rotherham and Plymouth. What makes you think they will easily win those 3 games? Only ourselves made them look anywhere near a top 6 team. Shows how bad we are. Good point, he needs to win those 3 games, the players have come out in support of DW also, if Cardiff was a turning point then he may be given till FAC3 break to show it......Boro & Coventry were in the bottom four at this point last season, more than enough time to turn it around, but will he?? |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 16, 2023 11:12:11 GMT 1
They already lost to Rotherham and Plymouth. What makes you think they will easily win those 3 games? Only ourselves made them look anywhere near a top 6 team. Shows how bad we are. Good point, he needs to win those 3 games, the players have come out in support of DW also, if Cardiff was a turning point then he may be given till FAC3 break to show it......Boro & Coventry were in the bottom four at this point last season, more than enough time to turn it around, but will he?? Of course he won't. I remember that second Premier League season and we were in November 2018, from then until January we had Brighton, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Southampton, Fulham, Burnley and Cardiff to play. We all thought a couple of wins would see us okay as we were playing the teams around us, including some we'd beaten the season before. How many points did we get? 1. 1 fucking point! |
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Post by Essex Terrier on Nov 16, 2023 11:28:25 GMT 1
Good point, he needs to win those 3 games, the players have come out in support of DW also, if Cardiff was a turning point then he may be given till FAC3 break to show it......Boro & Coventry were in the bottom four at this point last season, more than enough time to turn it around, but will he?? Of course he won't. I remember that second Premier League season and we were in November 2018, from then until January we had Brighton, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Southampton, Fulham, Burnley and Cardiff to play. We all thought a couple of wins would see us okay as we were playing the teams around us, including some we'd beaten the season before. How many points did we get? 1. 1 fucking point! Ahhh, the Brighton game. Or, as we know it now The Mounie Game?🤔 |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 16, 2023 11:59:52 GMT 1
Of course he won't. I remember that second Premier League season and we were in November 2018, from then until January we had Brighton, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Southampton, Fulham, Burnley and Cardiff to play. We all thought a couple of wins would see us okay as we were playing the teams around us, including some we'd beaten the season before. How many points did we get? 1. 1 fucking point! Ahhh, the Brighton game. Or, as we know it now The Mounie Game?🤔 Are we the only fans in the world that blame a relegation on a game that happened in December? |
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Post by paulmat on Nov 16, 2023 12:00:15 GMT 1
Good point, he needs to win those 3 games, the players have come out in support of DW also, if Cardiff was a turning point then he may be given till FAC3 break to show it......Boro & Coventry were in the bottom four at this point last season, more than enough time to turn it around, but will he?? Of course he won't. I remember that second Premier League season and we were in November 2018, from then until January we had Brighton, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Southampton, Fulham, Burnley and Cardiff to play. We all thought a couple of wins would see us okay as we were playing the teams around us, including some we'd beaten the season before. How many points did we get? 1. 1 fucking point! To add a little bit of balance: Brighton = man (wrongly) sent off while leading Bournemouth = lost 2-1 despite battering them Arsenal away (which you've skipped) = last minute winner We were poor against Newcastle and Southampton Fulham away = last minute winner Burnley = man sent off for a second yellow - when he didn't realise he'd been booked already Cardiff = got given a penalty and the ref (wrongly) changed his mind. All this with the back drop of an injury crisis in midfield - think we were without Mooy for most of these games, and Hogg for several, and an owner in hospital with his life at risk. Yes we should have got more points, but the bad luck and we had during that run was ridiculous and I think everything going on just broke Wagner. Criticise him for what he's done since he left us by all means, but I think pinning the blame of that season on him is harsh. |
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Post by Venezuelan Pete on Nov 16, 2023 12:16:31 GMT 1
And plenty on here got excited about it too He was never going to be any good but when you are no longer a player/ manager here you seem to improve in many eyes Wagner was wonderful for us at the timeBut his ship has most certainly sailed Greaves was wonderful at a time in the seventies, he went on to prove he was no 'one hit wonder' & achieved top flight success with Bolton, it would not surprise me in the least if DW did managed in the PL once again.......Norwich play three of the leagues worst teams at home before to Xmas, surely 3 gifts for David plus 9 (or nein) points. Wagner will be lucky if he manages in England again, never mind the PL |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 16, 2023 12:20:07 GMT 1
Of course he won't. I remember that second Premier League season and we were in November 2018, from then until January we had Brighton, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Southampton, Fulham, Burnley and Cardiff to play. We all thought a couple of wins would see us okay as we were playing the teams around us, including some we'd beaten the season before. How many points did we get? 1. 1 fucking point! To add a little bit of balance: Brighton = man (wrongly) sent off while leading Bournemouth = lost 2-1 despite battering them Arsenal away (which you've skipped) = last minute winner We were poor against Newcastle and Southampton Fulham away = last minute winner Burnley = man sent off for a second yellow - when he didn't realise he'd been booked already Cardiff = got given a penalty and the ref (wrongly) changed his mind. All this with the back drop of an injury crisis in midfield - think we were without Mooy for most of these games, and Hogg for several, and an owner in hospital with his life at risk. Yes we should have got more points, but the bad luck and we had during that run was ridiculous and I think everything going on just broke Wagner. Criticise him for what he's done since he left us by all means, but I think pinning the blame of that season on him is harsh.Who else is to blame for the team not winning any games? Moore hasn't won many games this season, is that attributed to bad luck as well, or is it just because Moore isn't very good? I skipped the Arsenal game, just as I skipped the Man Utd game as they weren't teams that were around us/or winnable games. I think it's hilarious to blame it on "bad luck". If that's the case, all the other poor periods of our history should be attributed to "bad luck" as well? |
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Post by irverino on Nov 16, 2023 12:47:40 GMT 1
Greaves was wonderful at a time in the seventies, he went on to prove he was no 'one hit wonder' & achieved top flight success with Bolton, it would not surprise me in the least if DW did managed in the PL once again.......Norwich play three of the leagues worst teams at home before to Xmas, surely 3 gifts for David plus 9 (or nein) points. Wagner will be lucky if he manages in England again, never mind the PL Maybe, Klopp will probably find his mate a job at Anfield if he gets really stuck......Huge 6 weeks for DW, I'm gonna sit on the fence & say it could go either way, if they lose at home to QPR he's gone. |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 16, 2023 12:57:15 GMT 1
I always found it very odd that his mate never loaned us any players throughout his whole tenure here.
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Post by overtonterrierspirit on Nov 16, 2023 12:58:53 GMT 1
I always found it very odd that his mate never loaned us any players throughout his whole tenure here. That’s a fair point. Particularly in our 2nd PL season! |
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Post by mosher on Nov 16, 2023 12:59:30 GMT 1
I always found it very odd that his mate never loaned us any players throughout his whole tenure here. Almost as if the media overblew the friendship, surely not?  |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 16, 2023 13:00:34 GMT 1
I always found it very odd that his mate never loaned us any players throughout his whole tenure here. Almost as if the media overblew the friendship, surely not? Yes. The whole "Klopp's assistant" stuff was nonsense. Wagner was never Jurgen Klopp's assistant. |
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Post by dewsburyterrier on Nov 16, 2023 13:12:21 GMT 1
I always found it very odd that his mate never loaned us any players throughout his whole tenure here. I thought Danny Ward was on loan from Liverpool in 2016/17? |
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Post by Porrohman on Nov 16, 2023 13:20:46 GMT 1
I always found it very odd that his mate never loaned us any players throughout his whole tenure here. I thought Danny Ward was on loan from Liverpool in 2016/17? 1 distinctly average keeper isn't what we expected or hoped for though |
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Post by irverino on Nov 16, 2023 13:32:32 GMT 1
I thought Danny Ward was on loan from Liverpool in 2016/17? 1 distinctly average keeper isn't what we expected or hoped for though If you look at the players Liverpool loaned out their wasn't a lot of talent that didn't come with a huge price/wage.......I think we had offers on Sturridge & Wilson, both were pricey. Danny may be average to some but held his nerve in penalty shoot outs, ask Fernando Forestieri. |
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Post by Porrohman on Nov 16, 2023 13:36:52 GMT 1
1 distinctly average keeper isn't what we expected or hoped for though If you look at the players Liverpool loaned out their wasn't a lot of talent that didn't come with a huge price/wage.......I think we had offers on Sturridge & Wilson, both were pricey. Danny may be average to some but held his nerve in penalty shoot outs, ask Fernando Forestieri. Why did he hold his nerve as opposed to Forestieri and the Reading players losing theirs ? Most goalies will hope to go the right way, a couple of times, in a shoot out. |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 16, 2023 13:49:56 GMT 1
I always found it very odd that his mate never loaned us any players throughout his whole tenure here. I thought Danny Ward was on loan from Liverpool in 2016/17? Yes you're right. Forgot about him. |
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Post by paulmat on Nov 16, 2023 14:04:21 GMT 1
To add a little bit of balance: Brighton = man (wrongly) sent off while leading Bournemouth = lost 2-1 despite battering them Arsenal away (which you've skipped) = last minute winner We were poor against Newcastle and Southampton Fulham away = last minute winner Burnley = man sent off for a second yellow - when he didn't realise he'd been booked already Cardiff = got given a penalty and the ref (wrongly) changed his mind. All this with the back drop of an injury crisis in midfield - think we were without Mooy for most of these games, and Hogg for several, and an owner in hospital with his life at risk. Yes we should have got more points, but the bad luck and we had during that run was ridiculous and I think everything going on just broke Wagner. Criticise him for what he's done since he left us by all means, but I think pinning the blame of that season on him is harsh.Who else is to blame for the team not winning any games? Moore hasn't won many games this season, is that attributed to bad luck as well, or is it just because Moore isn't very good? I skipped the Arsenal game, just as I skipped the Man Utd game as they weren't teams that were around us/or winnable games. I think it's hilarious to blame it on "bad luck". If that's the case, all the other poor periods of our history should be attributed to "bad luck" as well? Don't want to get into a big debate, so will leave it after these couple of thoughts. I don't think all poor runs are just on the manager. Moore is not solely to blame for the recent run, the squad strengh, and injuries are definitely a factor. Moore of course takes a fair share of the blame. We've also been mainly dreadful recently and have been hammered several times. The run you've mentioned, yes Wagner takes some blame (I said we should have done better), but we had a bad run of injuries (like Moore has), we had a poor squad after bad summer recruitment (like Moore has) we had some ludicrous refereeing decisions + situations (unlike Moore), a referee changing his mind over a penalty, and a guy being sent off for a second yellow without realising he had been booked are pretty unique. Performances in some of that run were pretty good (unlike Moore), every game was relatively close (unlike Moore) and the club and manager were struggling with the owner being hospitilised (unlike Moore). So to compare the two from my point of view: The current run under Moore = some bad luck, some factors outside of the managers control, a fair portion of the blame on the manager That run under Wagner = some ridiculous bad luck, some factors outside of the managers control, some blame to the manager of course, but in my opinion harsh to pin it all on him. |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 16, 2023 14:27:51 GMT 1
Who else is to blame for the team not winning any games? Moore hasn't won many games this season, is that attributed to bad luck as well, or is it just because Moore isn't very good? I skipped the Arsenal game, just as I skipped the Man Utd game as they weren't teams that were around us/or winnable games. I think it's hilarious to blame it on "bad luck". If that's the case, all the other poor periods of our history should be attributed to "bad luck" as well? Don't want to get into a big debate, so will leave it after these couple of thoughts. I don't think all poor runs are just on the manager. Moore is not solely to blame for the recent run, the squad strengh, and injuries are definitely a factor. Moore of course takes a fair share of the blame. We've also been mainly dreadful recently and have been hammered several times. The run you've mentioned, yes Wagner takes some blame (I said we should have done better), but we had a bad run of injuries (like Moore has), we had a poor squad after bad summer recruitment (like Moore has) we had some ludicrous refereeing decisions + situations (unlike Moore), a referee changing his mind over a penalty, and a guy being sent off for a second yellow without realising he had been booked are pretty unique. Performances in some of that run were pretty good (unlike Moore), every game was relatively close (unlike Moore) and the club and manager were struggling with the owner being hospitilised (unlike Moore). So to compare the two from my point of view: The current run under Moore = some bad luck, some factors outside of the managers control, a fair portion of the blame on the manager That run under Wagner = some ridiculous bad luck, some factors outside of the managers control, some blame to the manager of course, but in my opinion harsh to pin it all on him.I never pinned it all on him But I do think it's an easy get out for Wagner. Let's say Fotheringham had presided over such a run, there's no way on this Earth he would be afforded all the excuses you've given Wagner. Similar to how Siewert seems to get all the blame for us going down when in reality, we were down before he even arrived. We had two managers that season, both of them performed very poorly and hence we went down. |
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Tinpot
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Post by Tinpot on Nov 16, 2023 14:45:55 GMT 1
Don't want to get into a big debate, so will leave it after these couple of thoughts. I don't think all poor runs are just on the manager. Moore is not solely to blame for the recent run, the squad strengh, and injuries are definitely a factor. Moore of course takes a fair share of the blame. We've also been mainly dreadful recently and have been hammered several times. The run you've mentioned, yes Wagner takes some blame (I said we should have done better), but we had a bad run of injuries (like Moore has), we had a poor squad after bad summer recruitment (like Moore has) we had some ludicrous refereeing decisions + situations (unlike Moore), a referee changing his mind over a penalty, and a guy being sent off for a second yellow without realising he had been booked are pretty unique. Performances in some of that run were pretty good (unlike Moore), every game was relatively close (unlike Moore) and the club and manager were struggling with the owner being hospitilised (unlike Moore). So to compare the two from my point of view: The current run under Moore = some bad luck, some factors outside of the managers control, a fair portion of the blame on the manager That run under Wagner = some ridiculous bad luck, some factors outside of the managers control, some blame to the manager of course, but in my opinion harsh to pin it all on him.I never pinned it all on him But I do think it's an easy get out for Wagner.
Let's say Fotheringham had presided over such a run, there's no way on this Earth he would be afforded all the excuses you've given Wagner.Similar to how Siewert seems to get all the blame for us going down when in reality, we were down before he even arrived. We had two managers that season, both of them performed very poorly and hence we went down. He might have if he'd done a superb job prior to that run... |
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Post by htafcokay on Nov 16, 2023 14:55:34 GMT 1
I never pinned it all on him But I do think it's an easy get out for Wagner.
Let's say Fotheringham had presided over such a run, there's no way on this Earth he would be afforded all the excuses you've given Wagner.Similar to how Siewert seems to get all the blame for us going down when in reality, we were down before he even arrived. We had two managers that season, both of them performed very poorly and hence we went down. He might have if he'd done a superb job prior to that run... And this is why I don't want him back. Because no matter how rubbish he is now, you'll just get people saying "yeah but what about 2017". |
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Post by rockwall on Nov 16, 2023 14:59:10 GMT 1
Of course he won't. I remember that second Premier League season and we were in November 2018, from then until January we had Brighton, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Southampton, Fulham, Burnley and Cardiff to play. We all thought a couple of wins would see us okay as we were playing the teams around us, including some we'd beaten the season before. How many points did we get? 1. 1 fucking point! To add a little bit of balance: Brighton = man (wrongly) sent off while leading Bournemouth = lost 2-1 despite battering them Arsenal away (which you've skipped) = last minute winner We were poor against Newcastle and Southampton Fulham away = last minute winner Burnley = man sent off for a second yellow - when he didn't realise he'd been booked already Cardiff = got given a penalty and the ref (wrongly) changed his mind. All this with the back drop of an injury crisis in midfield - think we were without Mooy for most of these games, and Hogg for several, and an owner in hospital with his life at risk. Yes we should have got more points, but the bad luck and we had during that run was ridiculous and I think everything going on just broke Wagner. Criticise him for what he's done since he left us by all means, but I think pinning the blame of that season on him is harsh. Still can't believe everyone remembers Mounies red, but always forget the Jamal lascelles challenge on depoitre that was a red card, yet was only given as a yellow |
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Post by Essex Terrier on Nov 16, 2023 17:29:56 GMT 1
Ahhh, the Brighton game. Or, as we know it now The Mounie Game?🤔 Are we the only fans in the world that blame a relegation on a game that happened in December? To paraphrase P G Wodehouse.....'It is never difficult to distinguish between a Town Fan with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.' Can never get too many quotes on DATM from the nations favourite Nazi sympathiser. |
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Post by FloridaTerrier on Nov 17, 2023 2:20:28 GMT 1
Of course he won't. I remember that second Premier League season and we were in November 2018, from then until January we had Brighton, Bournemouth, Newcastle, Southampton, Fulham, Burnley and Cardiff to play. We all thought a couple of wins would see us okay as we were playing the teams around us, including some we'd beaten the season before. How many points did we get? 1. 1 fucking point! To add a little bit of balance: Brighton = man (wrongly) sent off while leading Bournemouth = lost 2-1 despite battering them Arsenal away (which you've skipped) = last minute winner We were poor against Newcastle and Southampton Fulham away = last minute winner Burnley = man sent off for a second yellow - when he didn't realise he'd been booked already Cardiff = got given a penalty and the ref (wrongly) changed his mind. All this with the back drop of an injury crisis in midfield - think we were without Mooy for most of these games, and Hogg for several, and an owner in hospital with his life at risk. Yes we should have got more points, but the bad luck and we had during that run was ridiculous and I think everything going on just broke Wagner. Criticise him for what he's done since he left us by all means, but I think pinning the blame of that season on him is harsh. That was the season that I believe broke David Wagner in my opinion. Lost his mojo and I don't think he's been the same since. Coaches/Managers can have that run of games, a game that changes them forever. Lee Clark was the same 0-3 P'boro final, his career has gone downhill since then. Rafa Benítez at Newcastle, then Everton. If I thought about it for more than a minute, i'm sure I could give a list as long as our arm of coaches/managers that that's happened to. DW was right for us at the time, for him and for us. Unfortunately, as his and ours performances got better, he started to believe the hype and got distracted like most do, and lost that mojo. We gave him his first big break and he thrived with it, him with a point to prove and with his own underdog mentality, and to the club needing a point to prove also. Unfortunately, the club and DW got ahead of ourselves. He's almost now becoming the forgotten man, had all that potential every big club im sure kept an eye on him, went to Schalke a club in turmoil, and it's gone even further downhill since. He'll probably end up being on the manager merrygoround at clubs within the championship, similar to Pearson, Bruce, Wilder, Karanka etc etc |
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Post by onesteviekindon on Nov 17, 2023 7:18:38 GMT 1
Always go forward, never go back. It usually fails nine times out of ten. We of all clubs should have learned that by now. The Wagner years were great, but they have been and gone. Leave them in the past. Warnock? I believe I said nine times out of ten, did you miss that? |
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Post by Essex Terrier on Nov 17, 2023 11:07:58 GMT 1
I believe I said nine times out of ten, did you miss that? Of course not - I was merely pointing out the accuracy of your comment. ....or was I?😉 |
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Post by ACW on Nov 17, 2023 13:06:57 GMT 1
I always found it very odd that his mate never loaned us any players throughout his whole tenure here. Almost as if the media overblew the friendship, surely not? Wagner was best man at Klopp's wedding. I think it's fair to say they are/were pretty close. |
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Post by mosher on Nov 17, 2023 13:09:07 GMT 1
Almost as if the media overblew the friendship, surely not? Wagner was best man at Klopp's wedding. I think it's fair to say they are/were pretty close. I remember reading that too. Certainly didn't seem to pan out like they were besties though. Or maybe Kaiser Dave didn't think any of their kids (apart from Danny Ward) would improve his squad? |
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Post by paulmat on Nov 17, 2023 14:48:01 GMT 1
Wagner was best man at Klopp's wedding. I think it's fair to say they are/were pretty close. I remember reading that too. Certainly didn't seem to pan out like they were besties though. Or maybe Kaiser Dave didn't think any of their kids (apart from Danny Ward) would improve his squad? There was more than one occasion where Klopp was interviewed (about Liverpool) and he instead wanted to speak about how happy he was Huddersfield won - once after we beat West Brom away in the Prem when he was absolutely giddy on hearing our result, and another after we stayed up at Chelsea. Before playing Leeds in the cup he spoke about it being a half derby because of his connections to Huddersfield. In a doc made about the two he admitted to crying when we won promotion. They were/are clearly extremely close. That doesn't necessarily mean Klopp would have loaned us players, if it isn't right for them or Liverpool, and I wonder if them being close almost prevented it happening more, due to the fear of being accused of doing favours for mates. |
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Post by mosher on Nov 17, 2023 15:06:20 GMT 1
I remember reading that too. Certainly didn't seem to pan out like they were besties though. Or maybe Kaiser Dave didn't think any of their kids (apart from Danny Ward) would improve his squad? There was more than one occasion where Klopp was interviewed (about Liverpool) and he instead wanted to speak about how happy he was Huddersfield won - once after we beat West Brom away in the Prem when he was absolutely giddy on hearing our result, and another after we stayed up at Chelsea. Before playing Leeds in the cup he spoke about it being a half derby because of his connections to Huddersfield. In a doc made about the two he admitted to crying when we won promotion. They were/are clearly extremely close. That doesn't necessarily mean Klopp would have loaned us players, if it isn't right for them or Liverpool, and I wonder if them being close almost prevented it happening more, due to the fear of being accused of doing favours for mates.That's an interesting theory and could be right, never thought about that. Must admit I never really watched interviews with Klopp, only watched MOTD for Town and blanked out everything they showed before our (inevitable) last place slot  |
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