|
|
Post by Convictatthemac on Oct 26, 2024 2:57:28 GMT 1
”End of debate really.” Do you understand what you just did there by finishing your post this way? You essentially just shut down the debate on your terms, stifling discussion, communication, constructive criticism and debate. You had just told me that you are open to criticism, but then quickly shut down any criticism. If you are actually open to criticism, I’d offer you some constructive criticism about your communication style and tone. As far as Nagel goes, do you honestly think he hasn’t listened to the staff, the fans, and his advisors? Nagel has clearly listened to his staff and improved their workplace and their ability to do their jobs. Don’t forget, there will be many changes that are driven by the staff that we don’t see, it won’t be limited to better workspaces, but dressing rooms etc are the easy ones to show the fans through. Fans have asked for many different improvements, some have been enacted and others are on the way. The irony is, here he is taking 30-40 minutes out of his day delivering a message to fans, communicating and asking for more ideas about how to improve the match day experience but you continue to say he doesn’t listen. You can sit there and drone on about strikers (I agree we need a decent striker by the way) but it’s not the only way to improve a match day experience and then revenue to set us up to afford and compete with the richer championship clubs. It’s clear that Nagel understands we need to increase the match day experience, from hours before kickoff until the last fan leaves at the end of the day. Nagel understands this because he’s been to numerous fan forums and canvased ideas from every area, including here, including you. One of the main projects where money is clearly being spent and going to have further investment is the stadium. Fans have given plenty of feedback on the stadium and his advisors are clearly working hard with Nagel to get control of the stadium. While many might think this is a waste of money to put a lick of paint when we can spend the money on a striker, but this is short term thinking, whereas I see Nagel looking at both the current condition of the club, but where the club is in the future. Does anyone think the likes of Delta Airlines comes to our stadium and says “yeah we'll ignore the rust and the vintage feeling of the stadium and put our name on the stadium? An airline prides itself on engineering and safety, there’s no way a company like that would put their name on a rusted stadium requiring maintenance and paint. The reality is we need to attract these types of companies if we want to buy the top line striker and sustainably afford them. Whatever your thoughts are about the FFP rules, we can’t ignore them if we want to return to the top 2 leagues in England. We need to build from the bottom up. It’s going to take time and you are going to need to show Nagel some patience, because if you are being fair to him, he bought a club that had an ageing squad with mostly depreciating value, a club that was starved of investment by previous owners, especially in the last few years of their tenure. So my point to you is patience it’s not just about what happens on the park (which I do acknowledge is important) and work on how you communicate with Nagel as he does listen. Fair enough. Personally I don’t trust him , but that’s my opinion. I will either be proved wrong or right. I mean those waistcoats -  - embarrassing. That’s a fair feeling to have. All I can say is improving your messaging will get more traction. A late night twitter spat won’t help, but a chat the next day when emotions have dropped will get you further. And to be fair to you, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a rant, I’ve done my fair share, but probably best not doing it directly to a owner/player/manager straight after the game. I honestly think this is a great place for the rant because they don’t need to read it here and if they do it’ll be done at a time when they are ready to read the room. |
|
|
|
Post by detox on Oct 26, 2024 6:57:43 GMT 1
Suppose in some way, after over a year of ownership I'd be hoping for a bit more urgency in getting the playing squad better.
Accepting who KN has entrusted with advising him on this has a track record of persistent failure.
If KN wanted to get things moving why hasn't he acted? The club has actually gone the total opposite direction KN said we were going !
Yet there doesn't seem to be any anxiety about this,in fact it all seems a bit blasé.
|
|
|
|
Post by dugnet on Oct 26, 2024 7:35:03 GMT 1
”End of debate really.” Do you understand what you just did there by finishing your post this way? You essentially just shut down the debate on your terms, stifling discussion, communication, constructive criticism and debate. You had just told me that you are open to criticism, but then quickly shut down any criticism. If you are actually open to criticism, I’d offer you some constructive criticism about your communication style and tone. As far as Nagel goes, do you honestly think he hasn’t listened to the staff, the fans, and his advisors? Nagel has clearly listened to his staff and improved their workplace and their ability to do their jobs. Don’t forget, there will be many changes that are driven by the staff that we don’t see, it won’t be limited to better workspaces, but dressing rooms etc are the easy ones to show the fans through. Fans have asked for many different improvements, some have been enacted and others are on the way. The irony is, here he is taking 30-40 minutes out of his day delivering a message to fans, communicating and asking for more ideas about how to improve the match day experience but you continue to say he doesn’t listen. You can sit there and drone on about strikers (I agree we need a decent striker by the way) but it’s not the only way to improve a match day experience and then revenue to set us up to afford and compete with the richer championship clubs. It’s clear that Nagel understands we need to increase the match day experience, from hours before kickoff until the last fan leaves at the end of the day. Nagel understands this because he’s been to numerous fan forums and canvased ideas from every area, including here, including you. One of the main projects where money is clearly being spent and going to have further investment is the stadium. Fans have given plenty of feedback on the stadium and his advisors are clearly working hard with Nagel to get control of the stadium. While many might think this is a waste of money to put a lick of paint when we can spend the money on a striker, but this is short term thinking, whereas I see Nagel looking at both the current condition of the club, but where the club is in the future. Does anyone think the likes of Delta Airlines comes to our stadium and says “yeah we'll ignore the rust and the vintage feeling of the stadium and put our name on the stadium? An airline prides itself on engineering and safety, there’s no way a company like that would put their name on a rusted stadium requiring maintenance and paint. The reality is we need to attract these types of companies if we want to buy the top line striker and sustainably afford them. Whatever your thoughts are about the FFP rules, we can’t ignore them if we want to return to the top 2 leagues in England. We need to build from the bottom up. It’s going to take time and you are going to need to show Nagel some patience, because if you are being fair to him, he bought a club that had an ageing squad with mostly depreciating value, a club that was starved of investment by previous owners, especially in the last few years of their tenure. So my point to you is patience it’s not just about what happens on the park (which I do acknowledge is important) and work on how you communicate with Nagel as he does listen. Fair enough. Personally I don’t trust him , but that’s my opinion. I will either be proved wrong or right. I mean those waistcoats - - embarrassing. Serious question: What don't you trust? His integrity in taking Town on ie he has a nefarious motive or his ability to make the club successful. I don't ask the question to be contentious but because it raises a valid point about how those who aren't convinced perceive Mr Nagle. It is something that he can learn from, but of course that assumes you accept his motives are honourable. |
|
|
|
Post by dugnet on Oct 26, 2024 8:10:20 GMT 1
Suppose in some way, after over a year of ownership I'd be hoping for a bit more urgency in getting the playing squad better. Accepting who KN has entrusted with advising him on this has a track record of persistent failure. If KN wanted to get things moving why hasn't he acted? The club has actually gone the total opposite direction KN said we were going ! Yet there doesn't seem to be any anxiety about this,in fact it all seems a bit blasé. That is a fair observation and I wouldn't criticise you asking the question (of Mr Nagle). As with your answer to my previous post I think it is important that Mr Nagle listens to concerns such as yours (and others) because: 1 - You are a long standing fan & 2 - Those concerns are reasonably expressed. I'm not here to defend Mr Nagle, he or his proxy on here can do that, but as a way of balance I think he does have the best intentions. The last diary, without expressly stating it, was all about incremental growth. I think there is a long term view but investment on the pitch will have to be underpinned by revenue growth off it ie it won't be an immediate transition, albeit it has cost Mr Nagle a significant amount so far. Is that transition swift enough? That is almost the $64 000 question. We compete in a league with 2 heavily investing owners from the USA. Whether Mr Nagle accepts the comparison or not there is a benchmark that some may judge him against (nb I'm not saying you are necessarily one of them). On the pitch I do think we are making some progress but it is a little fragile and yet to be entirely convincing. I think the positive is that, and I've said this before, we have a manager who is ambitious but realistic about what is required. He wants to be successful and I think he understands the investment plan and is happy to work within that. However the support that is given to MD and how it is executed has to be both precise and of the highest possible quality. Without simply beating Cartwright with a stick he has to deliver. We might not have spent Birmingham money, and I get why we haven't, but there are reasonable question marks over the recruitment choices. That isn't being overtly critical it is a fact. I can see the sense in the Nagle plan. Moreover given what we experienced since May 2017 it is encouraging that we actually have a plan. This season will be touch and go as to if we can get back to the Championship. I wouldn't be wholly confident right now but equally it is far from impossible. Is that enough though? One thing I am certain on is that if we were promoted that immediate and significant investment in the 1st team would be needed to maintain Championship football. But it would be a nice debate to have if we get there. Given the opportunity we wasted and the subsequent way things have panned out it has to accepted that scepticism is high. I personally don't have an issue with the Nagle approach as I am hopeful that long term the club will be better off for his involvement (noting that he still has a bit to learn, and I think is willing to, about the fans, their concerns and their hopes) but I, now, accept this will be a steady improvement than a dramatic one. That is only my view and yours is the one that Mr Nagle really needs to take some notice of because it is entirely valid. He needs to get more people like you on board with the "project" because that is the way to a better atmosphere (not playing music after we score) and ultimately growing the club. I think we saw the potential of the club when we were briefly successful and that is what needs to be targeted and achieved. It's an important debate and one that the club needs to accept and embrace. UTT |
|
|
|
Post by royrace on Oct 26, 2024 8:23:09 GMT 1
Suppose in some way, after over a year of ownership I'd be hoping for a bit more urgency in getting the playing squad better. Accepting who KN has entrusted with advising him on this has a track record of persistent failure. If KN wanted to get things moving why hasn't he acted? The club has actually gone the total opposite direction KN said we were going ! Yet there doesn't seem to be any anxiety about this,in fact it all seems a bit blasé. Feels like we're not going anywhere until a change is made with the DoF. Might sneak up this year but tbh I've a feeling we probably won't. I think we're very limited until a change is made and that's based purely on past performance, not some irrational desire to have a pop at MC as hinted at in the diaries. |
|
|
|
Post by mosher on Oct 26, 2024 8:56:24 GMT 1
I think there is a fair bit of naivety on here with regards to Nagle. Some fans seem to wholeheartedly buy the he is now a terrier through and through/bought the club out of his passion for the game etc without stopping for a moment and looking at the reality. A very succesfull/wealthy businesses man comes out of the blue to save us having never heard of the club or the town. Upon arriving he is adamant on buying the ground, building the brand etc. Now I’m not saying Nagle is a bad guy, I think he’s quite the opposite and now he is involved he is behind us as a club to do well. Having said that if anybody on here thinks there was no money/business motivation behind his buying of the club and he wants us to do well as nothing more than a fan, then I’m afraid you live in cuckoo land. Yep, 100% naivety to think he bought us for any other reason than to (eventually) make a profit! But to make a profit he needs to make us successful, he’ll never make a profit just buying n developing the stadium n surrounding area, not in his lifetime anyway One reason I don’t like the personal abuse on twatter is because if he wanted to he could just pull funding, cut his losses and we’d be fkd I’d rather he stayed onside and built up an affinity like he seems to be doing |
|
|
|
Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on Oct 26, 2024 9:02:31 GMT 1
I think there is a fair bit of naivety on here with regards to Nagle. Some fans seem to wholeheartedly buy the he is now a terrier through and through/bought the club out of his passion for the game etc without stopping for a moment and looking at the reality. A very succesfull/wealthy businesses man comes out of the blue to save us having never heard of the club or the town. Upon arriving he is adamant on buying the ground, building the brand etc. Now I’m not saying Nagle is a bad guy, I think he’s quite the opposite and now he is involved he is behind us as a club to do well. Having said that if anybody on here thinks there was no money/business motivation behind his buying of the club and he wants us to do well as nothing more than a fan, then I’m afraid you live in cuckoo land. I agree with a lot of this. I really like KN and I believe he will do what's best for the club. But, there must be some financial gain long term for him to take us on. Every businessman has a motive. He hasn't become a billionaire by not making a profit. I think the situation is good for both club and Kev. Long term the club will be secure. Spot on. |
|
|
|
Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on Oct 26, 2024 9:04:45 GMT 1
I think there is a fair bit of naivety on here with regards to Nagle. Some fans seem to wholeheartedly buy the he is now a terrier through and through/bought the club out of his passion for the game etc without stopping for a moment and looking at the reality. A very succesfull/wealthy businesses man comes out of the blue to save us having never heard of the club or the town. Upon arriving he is adamant on buying the ground, building the brand etc. Now I’m not saying Nagle is a bad guy, I think he’s quite the opposite and now he is involved he is behind us as a club to do well. Having said that if anybody on here thinks there was no money/business motivation behind his buying of the club and he wants us to do well as nothing more than a fan, then I’m afraid you live in cuckoo land. If he does right by the club then I think what he's actually in it for is irrelevant. We all know it wasn't an attractive proposition before he acquired it, so the best we can hope is he takes us forward. I think off the pitch he is doing more than we could have hoped so far. As I say I think he is a good guy who will see us right however I am also aware enough to understand there are bigger reasons for his involvement in the club than just to see us be more successful again. If both parties get what they want from it then it’s win win! |
|
|
|
Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on Oct 26, 2024 9:12:14 GMT 1
I agree with a lot of this. I really like KN and I believe he will do what's best for the club. But, there must be some financial gain long term for him to take us on. Every businessman has a motive. He hasn't become a billionaire by not making a profit. I think the situation is good for both club and Kev. Long term the club will be secure. I also agree to a lot of what you both posted. However, Whilst i’m sure that he is looking for opportunities to make money, i’m not necessarily sure how much this is his main driver. He appears to be an incredibly rich man. Who is now 70 years old. I am sure his kids and indeed current and future grandchildren are set up for life financially. His business as a whole seem to be incredibly successful. So how much more money is he actually look to make?? He’s likely to have a hell of a lot of disposable income to spend. Money that if he spends it all and gets nothing back, won’t even make the slightest dent. Money that he can throw at a project with the intent of making more money out of it but not really worry if he gets nothing back (but nice if he does). A bit like you and I buying a lottery ticket. It’d be bloody great to win, but highly unlikely we’ll get anything back and it’s a few quid you can afford. Huddersfield Town is a bit of a vanity project that he’s spending his spare money on. Not something he desperately needs to make a huge profit from. Nice if he can, but not a train smash if he doesn’t. His other businesses and investments seem to be making him a tidy living and will more than cover any losses here. He obviously wants the project to be successful as a whole, because successful people never want to fail. So he’ll see it as a long(ish) term project with long(ish) term targets to achieve I think it’s a win win situation. As supporters we want the club to be the very best it possibly can be. As a very successful man, with seemingly a massive amount of money, Nagle wants his vanity project to be as successful as it possibly can. It hasn’t been and won’t be a simple straight line. But i do believe KN wants what he has started to end successfully for him. If it does, that will be good for us. Unfortunately I have to disagree, I don’t think this is vanity project at all. I think it is a very successful business man seeing his latest opportunity to make a profit. I also think he is gracious enough to be invested in his business dealings and show passion for their success(as anyone would be having put in so much cash). When you are as successful as KN I don’t think you’re business head will ever truly switch off from opportunity’s to make profit. As I say I think he is a good guy who will see us right, but this almost certainly is a business venture not a vanity/being a fan project and that is absolutely fine as we both want the same success. |
|
|
|
Post by Terrier Ramone on Oct 26, 2024 9:27:23 GMT 1
I think the people who are blaming Cartwright &/or are saying change on the pitch isn't happening fast enough are really complaining we've not "done a Birmingham".
If we'd spent as much as them, I'd be really concerned about our future. They've spent £50m+ in fucking Division 3, they may well succeed in getting to the Premier but they could also blow their brains out. Whatever, I think it's totally unrealistic to compare what any other team in this division has ever done before to anyone else, including us.
I think a more realistic comparison for us would be Rotherham, many on here were complaining we weren't buying 14 or so players like them.... where's that got them? Imagine what it'd be like on here if we were in their league position!
On paper, I liked our summer spending & including the winter transfer window, we have spent a big amount on players for League 1. We've been hammered by injuries & maybe not enough due diligence was done on previous historical injuries but there are quite a lot on here hammering Lees & Pearson for not being able to hack it in League 1, when they've spent 100s of games in the Championship. Now they are saying Sorenson is shit... course he is, so shit he made the League 1 team of the year last time, they are also, more importantly ignoring what they've seen with their own eyes... he was excellent in the first 4 or 5 games of the season.
I don't believe we have a lack of talent, we are suffering from confidence issues due to as a club being too used to losing. I think if we are still top 6 by Christmas, that should have gone some considerable (though not all) way to changing that attitude & mental fortitude & we will really kick on 2nd half of the season.
|
|
|
|
Post by rockwall on Oct 26, 2024 9:29:11 GMT 1
I think there is a fair bit of naivety on here with regards to Nagle. Some fans seem to wholeheartedly buy the he is now a terrier through and through/bought the club out of his passion for the game etc without stopping for a moment and looking at the reality. A very succesfull/wealthy businesses man comes out of the blue to save us having never heard of the club or the town. Upon arriving he is adamant on buying the ground, building the brand etc. Now I’m not saying Nagle is a bad guy, I think he’s quite the opposite and now he is involved he is behind us as a club to do well. Having said that if anybody on here thinks there was no money/business motivation behind his buying of the club and he wants us to do well as nothing more than a fan, then I’m afraid you live in cuckoo land. Yep, 100% naivety to think he bought us for any other reason than to (eventually) make a profit! But to make a profit he needs to make us successful, he’ll never make a profit just buying n developing the stadium n surrounding area, not in his lifetime anyway One reason I don’t like the personal abuse on twatter is because if he wanted to he could just pull funding, cut his losses and we’d be fkd I’d rather he stayed onside and built up an affinity like he seems to be doing Luckily for us, it seems Kev knows the morons on twatter are a small minority. |
|
|
|
Post by dumbo on Oct 26, 2024 9:36:47 GMT 1
|
|
|
|
Post by terriersyndrome on Oct 26, 2024 9:48:07 GMT 1
I think the people who are blaming Cartwright &/or are saying change on the pitch isn't happening fast enough are really complaining we've not "done a Birmingham". If we'd spent as much as them, I'd be really concerned about our future. They've spent £50m+ in fucking Division 3, they may well succeed in getting to the Premier but they could also blow their brains out. Whatever, I think it's totally unrealistic to compare what any other team in this division has ever done to anyone else, including us. I think a more realistic comparison for us would be Rotherham, many on here were complaining we weren't buying 14 or so players like them.... where's that got them? Imagine what it'd be like on here if we were in their league position! On paper, I liked our summer spending & including the winter transfer window, we have spent a big amount on players for League 1. We've been hammered by injuries & maybe not enough due diligence was done on previous historical injuries but there are quite a lot on here hammering Lees & Pearson for not being able to hack it in League 1, when they've spent 100s of games in the Championship. Now they are saying Sorenson is shit... course he is, so shit he made the League 1 team of the year last time, they are also, more importantly ignoring what they've seen with their own eyes... he was excellent in the first 4 or 5 games of the season. I don't believe we have a lack of talent, we are suffering from confidence issues due to as a club being too used to losing. I think if we are still top 6 by Christmas, that should have gone some considerable (though not all) way to changing that attitude & mental fortitude & we will really kick on 2nd half of the season. Where has anybody said we should have 'done a Birmingham?' You can rebuild a squad without throwing £40-£50m at it. It's Duff who keeps going on about the fragile mentality of the players that were here last season and the relegation hangover. Nagle said in an earlier diary that these players would be getting moved on and a rebuild would take place, then in a later diary he said Duff is happy with them so a good chunk of them would stay, yet we keep hearing about mentality issues with them? |
|
|
|
Post by harri54 on Oct 26, 2024 9:55:08 GMT 1
”End of debate really.” Do you understand what you just did there by finishing your post this way? You essentially just shut down the debate on your terms, stifling discussion, communication, constructive criticism and debate. You had just told me that you are open to criticism, but then quickly shut down any criticism. If you are actually open to criticism, I’d offer you some constructive criticism about your communication style and tone. As far as Nagel goes, do you honestly think he hasn’t listened to the staff, the fans, and his advisors? Nagel has clearly listened to his staff and improved their workplace and their ability to do their jobs. Don’t forget, there will be many changes that are driven by the staff that we don’t see, it won’t be limited to better workspaces, but dressing rooms etc are the easy ones to show the fans through. Fans have asked for many different improvements, some have been enacted and others are on the way. The irony is, here he is taking 30-40 minutes out of his day delivering a message to fans, communicating and asking for more ideas about how to improve the match day experience but you continue to say he doesn’t listen. You can sit there and drone on about strikers (I agree we need a decent striker by the way) but it’s not the only way to improve a match day experience and then revenue to set us up to afford and compete with the richer championship clubs. It’s clear that Nagel understands we need to increase the match day experience, from hours before kickoff until the last fan leaves at the end of the day. Nagel understands this because he’s been to numerous fan forums and canvased ideas from every area, including here, including you. One of the main projects where money is clearly being spent and going to have further investment is the stadium. Fans have given plenty of feedback on the stadium and his advisors are clearly working hard with Nagel to get control of the stadium. While many might think this is a waste of money to put a lick of paint when we can spend the money on a striker, but this is short term thinking, whereas I see Nagel looking at both the current condition of the club, but where the club is in the future. Does anyone think the likes of Delta Airlines comes to our stadium and says “yeah we'll ignore the rust and the vintage feeling of the stadium and put our name on the stadium? An airline prides itself on engineering and safety, there’s no way a company like that would put their name on a rusted stadium requiring maintenance and paint. The reality is we need to attract these types of companies if we want to buy the top line striker and sustainably afford them. Whatever your thoughts are about the FFP rules, we can’t ignore them if we want to return to the top 2 leagues in England. We need to build from the bottom up. It’s going to take time and you are going to need to show Nagel some patience, because if you are being fair to him, he bought a club that had an ageing squad with mostly depreciating value, a club that was starved of investment by previous owners, especially in the last few years of their tenure. So my point to you is patience it’s not just about what happens on the park (which I do acknowledge is important) and work on how you communicate with Nagel as he does listen. Fair enough. Personally I don’t trust him , but that’s my opinion. I will either be proved wrong or right. I mean those waistcoats - - embarrassing. You 'don't trust him', based on your very poor understanding of economics, running a football club, etc. Your expertise are claimed to be in the artsie sphere, so I can see why you appear so dumb when it comes to realities, but to criticise people's attire - 'waistcoats' that's stooping to a whole new level of stupid. It looks to me like they keep them warm, sunny California to chilly West Yorkshire, but artsie fashion police Dunc knows best - only in your deluded World! |
|
|
|
Post by londoncowling on Oct 26, 2024 9:57:19 GMT 1
It’s quintessentially British is it not,to be sceptical .
But to lay into our owner and his adviser on a daily basis is not on. These men are here with, in my view the best intentions . I have watched their actions from a distance, and you have to say that off the field solid improvement is in place and continues. On the field we have in my view the right manager who communicates superbly and is beginning to see the fruits of his labour with the team
. If Kevin Nagle and Carmichael Dave are doing us all over,then they both deserve oscar’s for their performance .
I’m on board 🔵⚽️
|
|
|
|
Post by detox on Oct 26, 2024 10:22:25 GMT 1
Suppose in some way, after over a year of ownership I'd be hoping for a bit more urgency in getting the playing squad better. Accepting who KN has entrusted with advising him on this has a track record of persistent failure. If KN wanted to get things moving why hasn't he acted? The club has actually gone the total opposite direction KN said we were going ! Yet there doesn't seem to be any anxiety about this,in fact it all seems a bit blasé. That is a fair observation and I wouldn't criticise you asking the question (of Mr Nagle). As with your answer to my previous post I think it is important that Mr Nagle listens to concerns such as yours (and others) because: 1 - You are a long standing fan & 2 - Those concerns are reasonably expressed. I'm not here to defend Mr Nagle, he or his proxy on here can do that, but as a way of balance I think he does have the best intentions. The last diary, without expressly stating it, was all about incremental growth. I think there is a long term view but investment on the pitch will have to be underpinned by revenue growth off it ie it won't be an immediate transition, albeit it has cost Mr Nagle a significant amount so far. Is that transition swift enough? That is almost the $64 000 question. We compete in a league with 2 heavily investing owners from the USA. Whether Mr Nagle accepts the comparison or not there is a benchmark that some may judge him against (nb I'm not saying you are necessarily one of them). On the pitch I do think we are making some progress but it is a little fragile and yet to be entirely convincing. I think the positive is that, and I've said this before, we have a manager who is ambitious but realistic about what is required. He wants to be successful and I think he understands the investment plan and is happy to work within that. However the support that is given to MD and how it is executed has to be both precise and of the highest possible quality. Without simply beating Cartwright with a stick he has to deliver. We might not have spent Birmingham money, and I get why we haven't, but there are reasonable question marks over the recruitment choices. That isn't being overtly critical it is a fact. I can see the sense in the Nagle plan. Moreover given what we experienced since May 2017 it is encouraging that we actually have a plan. This season will be touch and go as to if we can get back to the Championship. I wouldn't be wholly confident right now but equally it is far from impossible. Is that enough though? One thing I am certain on is that if we were promoted that immediate and significant investment in the 1st team would be needed to maintain Championship football. But it would be a nice debate to have if we get there. Given the opportunity we wasted and the subsequent way things have panned out it has to accepted that scepticism is high. I personally don't have an issue with the Nagle approach as I am hopeful that long term the club will be better off for his involvement (noting that he still has a bit to learn, and I think is willing to, about the fans, their concerns and their hopes) but I, now, accept this will be a steady improvement than a dramatic one. That is only my view and yours is the one that Mr Nagle really needs to take some notice of because it is entirely valid. He needs to get more people like you on board with the "project" because that is the way to a better atmosphere (not playing music after we score) and ultimately growing the club. I think we saw the potential of the club when we were briefly successful and that is what needs to be targeted and achieved. It's an important debate and one that the club needs to accept and embrace. UTT I guess it's about style,KN seemingly wants to get all his dominoes in a row before splashing big cash on players..it might even be a condition of his. Stadium ownership, planning approvals for development etc...and I guess that sounds reasonable really. His project is bigger than just the first XI... |
|
|
|
Post by Terrier Ramone on Oct 26, 2024 10:29:24 GMT 1
I think the people who are blaming Cartwright &/or are saying change on the pitch isn't happening fast enough are really complaining we've not "done a Birmingham". If we'd spent as much as them, I'd be really concerned about our future. They've spent £50m+ in fucking Division 3, they may well succeed in getting to the Premier but they could also blow their brains out. Whatever, I think it's totally unrealistic to compare what any other team in this division has ever done to anyone else, including us. I think a more realistic comparison for us would be Rotherham, many on here were complaining we weren't buying 14 or so players like them.... where's that got them? Imagine what it'd be like on here if we were in their league position! On paper, I liked our summer spending & including the winter transfer window, we have spent a big amount on players for League 1. We've been hammered by injuries & maybe not enough due diligence was done on previous historical injuries but there are quite a lot on here hammering Lees & Pearson for not being able to hack it in League 1, when they've spent 100s of games in the Championship. Now they are saying Sorenson is shit... course he is, so shit he made the League 1 team of the year last time, they are also, more importantly ignoring what they've seen with their own eyes... he was excellent in the first 4 or 5 games of the season. I don't believe we have a lack of talent, we are suffering from confidence issues due to as a club being too used to losing. I think if we are still top 6 by Christmas, that should have gone some considerable (though not all) way to changing that attitude & mental fortitude & we will really kick on 2nd half of the season. Where has anybody said we should have 'done a Birmingham?' You can rebuild a squad without throwing £40-£50m at it. It's Duff who keeps going on about the fragile mentality of the players that were here last season and the relegation hangover. Nagle said in an earlier diary that these players would be getting moved on and a rebuild would take place, then in a later diary he said Duff is happy with them so a good chunk of them would stay, yet we keep hearing about mentality issues with them? You clearly haven't read the whole thread, Dunc at least is bemoaning we haven't shown the same ambition as Birmingham but there are others too. However, that's not my whole point, it's about what people are implying without necessarily stating it. Don't you think we have rebuilt the squad over the last 10 months? Balker, Healey, Radulovic, Hodge, Marshall, Longwijk, Evans, Kane, Sorenson, Miller... that's virtually a full team & I may have missed some. There still remains a nucleus of more experienced players who are used to losing, that mentality does not change over night, when things are going well we look good, when we go behind we still struggle, that will go in time, providing we win a lot, but the key thing there is in time. If you don't think your mindset would not change by losing far more than you win, you would not be human. |
|
|
|
Post by portugalterrier on Oct 26, 2024 10:56:57 GMT 1
That is a fair observation and I wouldn't criticise you asking the question (of Mr Nagle). As with your answer to my previous post I think it is important that Mr Nagle listens to concerns such as yours (and others) because: 1 - You are a long standing fan & 2 - Those concerns are reasonably expressed. I'm not here to defend Mr Nagle, he or his proxy on here can do that, but as a way of balance I think he does have the best intentions. The last diary, without expressly stating it, was all about incremental growth. I think there is a long term view but investment on the pitch will have to be underpinned by revenue growth off it ie it won't be an immediate transition, albeit it has cost Mr Nagle a significant amount so far. Is that transition swift enough? That is almost the $64 000 question. We compete in a league with 2 heavily investing owners from the USA. Whether Mr Nagle accepts the comparison or not there is a benchmark that some may judge him against (nb I'm not saying you are necessarily one of them). On the pitch I do think we are making some progress but it is a little fragile and yet to be entirely convincing. I think the positive is that, and I've said this before, we have a manager who is ambitious but realistic about what is required. He wants to be successful and I think he understands the investment plan and is happy to work within that. However the support that is given to MD and how it is executed has to be both precise and of the highest possible quality. Without simply beating Cartwright with a stick he has to deliver. We might not have spent Birmingham money, and I get why we haven't, but there are reasonable question marks over the recruitment choices. That isn't being overtly critical it is a fact. I can see the sense in the Nagle plan. Moreover given what we experienced since May 2017 it is encouraging that we actually have a plan. This season will be touch and go as to if we can get back to the Championship. I wouldn't be wholly confident right now but equally it is far from impossible. Is that enough though? One thing I am certain on is that if we were promoted that immediate and significant investment in the 1st team would be needed to maintain Championship football. But it would be a nice debate to have if we get there. Given the opportunity we wasted and the subsequent way things have panned out it has to accepted that scepticism is high. I personally don't have an issue with the Nagle approach as I am hopeful that long term the club will be better off for his involvement (noting that he still has a bit to learn, and I think is willing to, about the fans, their concerns and their hopes) but I, now, accept this will be a steady improvement than a dramatic one. That is only my view and yours is the one that Mr Nagle really needs to take some notice of because it is entirely valid. He needs to get more people like you on board with the "project" because that is the way to a better atmosphere (not playing music after we score) and ultimately growing the club. I think we saw the potential of the club when we were briefly successful and that is what needs to be targeted and achieved. It's an important debate and one that the club needs to accept and embrace. UTT I guess it's about style,KN seemingly wants to get all his dominoes in a row before splashing big cash on players..it might even be a condition of his. Stadium ownership, planning approvals for development etc...and I guess that sounds reasonable really. His project is bigger than just the first XI... There was a significant amount of money available in the summer, the issue was getting the right players for the right money, unfortunately the players that were available didn’t meet the criteria , that money is still available. |
|
ram
Andy Booth Terrier
delete account
Posts: 3,698 
|
Post by ram on Oct 26, 2024 10:58:23 GMT 1
I have been a critic of Cartwright for a long time now,but,could the fact that Nagle sings his praises at every opportunity,could it be that he actually is doing just that, because of the budget restrictions Nagle himself is putting on player recruitment which leaves him a very limited pool to operate in?
|
|
|
|
Post by King Neil on Oct 26, 2024 11:35:37 GMT 1
He,s showing more interest in Huddersfield as a whole than anyone I can remember
I'm starting to trust and believe in him and his vision
|
|
|
|
Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on Oct 26, 2024 13:36:43 GMT 1
It’s quintessentially British is it not,to be sceptical . But to lay into our owner and his adviser on a daily basis is not on. These men are here with, in my view the best intentions . I have watched their actions from a distance, and you have to say that off the field solid improvement is in place and continues. On the field we have in my view the right manager who communicates superbly and is beginning to see the fruits of his labour with the team . If Kevin Nagle and Carmichael Dave are doing us all over,then they both deserve oscar’s for their performance . I’m on board 🔵⚽️ On my part it’s certainly not about doubting his intentions, he wants us to be a success for his own reasons (most likely selling on at a profit, hence the looking at building housing etc) and we as fans want it to be a success to be, a success. Therefore it’s a win win situation and I have no doubt if/when KN moves on we will be in a far better place then we were when he took it on. I just think we are all big enough boys & girls to understand a magical fairy land doesn’t exist and that KN is here as he sees it as a great business opportunity. Thats a business opportunity that if he gets right will make all us fans very happy, as I say win win. |
|
|
|
Post by townarentbest on Oct 26, 2024 19:17:25 GMT 1
He,s showing more interest in Huddersfield as a whole than anyone I can remember I'm starting to trust and believe in him and his vision Will be interesting when/if he actually gets round to delivering something of note instead of just talking about it, to see where we're really at. Lots of paint pots so far polishing turds on and off the pitch, looks like fur coat and no knickers although I’m sure (and hope) that’s not what he’s about. |
|
|
|
Post by terriersyndrome on Oct 26, 2024 20:44:12 GMT 1
I guess it's about style,KN seemingly wants to get all his dominoes in a row before splashing big cash on players..it might even be a condition of his. Stadium ownership, planning approvals for development etc...and I guess that sounds reasonable really. His project is bigger than just the first XI... There was a significant amount of money available in the summer, the issue was getting the right players for the right money, unfortunately the players that were available didn’t meet the criteria , that money is still available. Overpaying for players in January again? You'd think lessons would have been learnt from last season? |
|
|
|
Post by portugalterrier on Oct 26, 2024 20:56:23 GMT 1
There was a significant amount of money available in the summer, the issue was getting the right players for the right money, unfortunately the players that were available didn’t meet the criteria , that money is still available. Overpaying for players in January again? You'd think lessons would have been learnt from last season? We refused to overpay in the summer, I think you can safely say we won’t be overpaying in January with the caveat that we have some momentum and “ that” player would make a difference, have a resale value and have Championship level ability. |
|
|
|
Post by artysid on Oct 26, 2024 21:20:35 GMT 1
I also agree to a lot of what you both posted. However, Whilst i’m sure that he is looking for opportunities to make money, i’m not necessarily sure how much this is his main driver. He appears to be an incredibly rich man. Who is now 70 years old. I am sure his kids and indeed current and future grandchildren are set up for life financially. His business as a whole seem to be incredibly successful. So how much more money is he actually look to make?? He’s likely to have a hell of a lot of disposable income to spend. Money that if he spends it all and gets nothing back, won’t even make the slightest dent. Money that he can throw at a project with the intent of making more money out of it but not really worry if he gets nothing back (but nice if he does). A bit like you and I buying a lottery ticket. It’d be bloody great to win, but highly unlikely we’ll get anything back and it’s a few quid you can afford. Huddersfield Town is a bit of a vanity project that he’s spending his spare money on. Not something he desperately needs to make a huge profit from. Nice if he can, but not a train smash if he doesn’t. His other businesses and investments seem to be making him a tidy living and will more than cover any losses here. He obviously wants the project to be successful as a whole, because successful people never want to fail. So he’ll see it as a long(ish) term project with long(ish) term targets to achieve I think it’s a win win situation. As supporters we want the club to be the very best it possibly can be. As a very successful man, with seemingly a massive amount of money, Nagle wants his vanity project to be as successful as it possibly can. It hasn’t been and won’t be a simple straight line. But i do believe KN wants what he has started to end successfully for him. If it does, that will be good for us. Unfortunately I have to disagree, I don’t think this is vanity project at all. I think it is a very successful business man seeing his latest opportunity to make a profit. I also think he is gracious enough to be invested in his business dealings and show passion for their success(as anyone would be having put in so much cash). When you are as successful as KN I don’t think you’re business head will ever truly switch off from opportunity’s to make profit. As I say I think he is a good guy who will see us right, but this almost certainly is a business venture not a vanity/being a fan project and that is absolutely fine as we both want the same success. If Kev is as rich as some on here claim, the amount of profit he could make by spending years upgrading HTFC is probably peanuts compared to what he would probably make by just putting the same amount into stocks and shares. |
|
|
|
Post by terriersyndrome on Oct 26, 2024 21:20:37 GMT 1
Overpaying for players in January again? You'd think lessons would have been learnt from last season? We refused to overpay in the summer, I think you can safely say we won’t be overpaying in January with the caveat that we have some momentum and “ that” player would make a difference, have a resale value and have Championship level ability. We refused to overpay for Alfie May early in the window, and rightly so. We then spent the rest of the window trying to get Joe Taylor and when that didn't work we had Nagle telling us that they were the only two in world football good enough for town. The window closes and we bring in an unfit Ladapo (sound familiar?) who we'd apparently been interested in all window according to Cartwright? Nearly 3 months into the season he's still nowhere near match fit and plays a bit-part squad filling role (sound familiar?) Now Nagle says we potentially have a striker lined up in January, probably Taylor, who we'll spend two months trying to get match fit and if on a permanent probably paying the 'January rate.' The club have not learned one thing about last season and will fall into exactly the same trap in January. |
|
terrier17
David Wagner Terrier
The Exclamation Terrier!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[M0:5]
Posts: 2,778
|
Post by terrier17 on Oct 26, 2024 21:49:50 GMT 1
Pleased he’s looking to redevelop around the ground, but housing? Seriously!? |
|
|
|
Post by portugalterrier on Oct 26, 2024 21:55:07 GMT 1
We refused to overpay in the summer, I think you can safely say we won’t be overpaying in January with the caveat that we have some momentum and “ that” player would make a difference, have a resale value and have Championship level ability. We refused to overpay for Alfie May early in the window, and rightly so. We then spent the rest of the window trying to get Joe Taylor and when that didn't work we had Nagle telling us that they were the only two in world football good enough for town. The window closes and we bring in an unfit Ladapo (sound familiar?) who we'd apparently been interested in all window according to Cartwright? Nearly 3 months into the season he's still nowhere near match fit and plays a bit-part squad filling role (sound familiar?) Now Nagle says we potentially have a striker lined up in January, probably Taylor, who we'll spend two months trying to get match fit and if on a permanent probably paying the 'January rate.' The club have not learned one thing about last season and will fall into exactly the same trap in January. May and Taylor were 2 of 5 we were close to signing , and Lapado was not one of the 3. |
|
|
|
Post by ChelmsfordTerrier on Oct 26, 2024 23:16:07 GMT 1
Unfortunately I have to disagree, I don’t think this is vanity project at all. I think it is a very successful business man seeing his latest opportunity to make a profit. I also think he is gracious enough to be invested in his business dealings and show passion for their success(as anyone would be having put in so much cash). When you are as successful as KN I don’t think you’re business head will ever truly switch off from opportunity’s to make profit. As I say I think he is a good guy who will see us right, but this almost certainly is a business venture not a vanity/being a fan project and that is absolutely fine as we both want the same success. If Kev is as rich as some on here claim, the amount of profit he could make by spending years upgrading HTFC is probably peanuts compared to what he would probably make by just putting the same amount into stocks and shares. Not sure on that one if housing/ground ownership etc is involved. |
|
|
|
Post by WarringtonTerrier on Oct 27, 2024 8:16:48 GMT 1
Poor Kev. As one of his teams starts to improve the other one starts to flounder. 1 win in 8 for them now dropping from 2nd place to 5th place entering the playoffs (which gives them a tricky away tie). Interesting they mention DC as well. Below taken from their FB page
"Briggs isnt the issue... This comes from the top. Nagel stopped caring about this team when he bought his english team Huddlesfield town and enlisted his hack job Carmichael dave to plug how great he is. #selltheteam"
|
|
- embarrassing. 
