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Post by Amigo on May 2, 2019 17:16:22 GMT 1
Wagner's time had to come to an end. It was a massive shame but the club we have now is incomparable to the one he took over. You could see it in his interviews, the way he spoke and body language he just looked drained and needed time off, we also needed a change.
To say he wouldn't leave a highly paid job is rubbish. He's got money, he's comfortable it's not like 99% of us walking away from that sort of money. He's also done enough to know he'd get another good job so while I'm sure it was a disappointing conversation to have for him about leaving it's not a "I can't leave this job because we won't eat/pay the bills" decision it's a "I can't turn things round here and don't have the energy to do it anymore" decision. Unlike a couple of others seem to I don't begrudge him being able to do that everyone makes choices in their lives to make themselves and those closest to him happy. It's a stressful job and while obviously I've no insight I'd imagine that stress can easily transfer home as well and no job is worth that (I'm not saying that's what actually happened at all).
As for the he walked away because he didn't want a relegation on his CV comment, what a load of shite. He offered to see the season out from what I know but even if I'm wrong there there's no shame in us getting relegated. The way it's happened is really disappointing but this for me doesn't blot his time here if you look at the bigger picture. The good times far outweigh the bad.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 18:31:19 GMT 1
Please don’t forget our awful luck with Refs decisions (Cardiff) injuries (Mooy) and the dreadful summer recruitment which I don’t believe was down to Wagner. Also, amongst all of this we remained competitive in most games and the spirit within the club was still good. Compare that with what we have now. Wagner is totally beyond reproach in my eyes. I personally think it's ridiculous that Wagner finished with 2 wins from 28 games or 5 from 44 if you want to go back that far and is labelled a genius while the same folk are labelling Siewart a fraud I didn't want Siewart, it was a ridiculous appointment really, but he's here now so might aswell back him. Wagner was a very good manager for Town but a genius wouldn't go on such a poor extended run. I think he'll be a pretty average manager in Germany where his methods are common place Wagner was here and a lot of fans didn’t back him and that was probably a small factor in him going. The fact ‘Jan is here now’ is not justification on its own for fans to back him or is it? A lot of fans didn’t back Wagner even after the success he’d brought us. What if Jan is not the right man/out of his depth etc..Wouldn't fan pressure help erase the mistake before it’s too late? |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 18:34:45 GMT 1
The whole pressure thing was made up wasn't it to give the club and Dave an exit strategy that wouldn't make either look bad. He never looked stressed to me, he looked frustrated understandably but he wasn't stressed. He was still doing extra interviews with the major broadcasters right up to the end, he was fine. No way he resigned due to pressure or stress, I thought that was obvious. He resigned because his hands had been tied since the summer and he was fully prepared to stay til the summer, it was the clubs decision for him to leave earlier. You are correct that it was the clubs decision for him to leave earlier. However, he was done, cooked for a better word. I honestly thought he needed to leave for his own mental health. The bloke puts in 100% and nothing less. With DH away sick, I can only imagine the extra responsibility he took onboard, whether that was actual or perceived didn’t matter, but it all definitely built up on him and he was burnt out. 100%. He looked totally shot and disheartened towards the end. He got stuck in a rut. Ostracised his best winger and didn’t like the other two (understandably- both shite) He just got more and more negative and boxed in. Couldn’t see a way out and none of our players could hit a cows arse with a banjo. |
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on May 2, 2019 18:53:56 GMT 1
I personally think it's ridiculous that Wagner finished with 2 wins from 28 games or 5 from 44 if you want to go back that far and is labelled a genius while the same folk are labelling Siewart a fraud I didn't want Siewart, it was a ridiculous appointment really, but he's here now so might aswell back him. Wagner was a very good manager for Town but a genius wouldn't go on such a poor extended run. I think he'll be a pretty average manager in Germany where his methods are common place Wagner was here and a lot of fans didn’t back him and that was probably a small factor in him going. The fact ‘Jan is here now’ is not justification on its own for fans to back him or is it? A lot of fans didn’t back Wagner even after the success he’d brought us. What if Jan is not the right man/out of his depth etc..Wouldn't fan pressure help erase the mistake before it’s too late? Who wasn't backing Wagner? There wasn't anyone calling for him to go. Some questioning his tactics and rightly so but we were all still behind him. The one thing nobody can criticise the fans for this season is turning on the club. It's been one of the worst seasons of any club in the history of professional football and fans are still turning out and supporting the players every week |
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Post by terriersyndrome on May 2, 2019 19:13:04 GMT 1
I personally think it's ridiculous that Wagner finished with 2 wins from 28 games or 5 from 44 if you want to go back that far and is labelled a genius while the same folk are labelling Siewart a fraud I didn't want Siewart, it was a ridiculous appointment really, but he's here now so might aswell back him. Wagner was a very good manager for Town but a genius wouldn't go on such a poor extended run. I think he'll be a pretty average manager in Germany where his methods are common place Wagner was here and a lot of fans didn’t back him and that was probably a small factor in him going. The fact ‘Jan is here now’ is not justification on its own for fans to back him or is it? A lot of fans didn’t back Wagner even after the success he’d brought us. What if Jan is not the right man/out of his depth etc..Wouldn't fan pressure help erase the mistake before it’s too late? I doubt he'd get better backing from the fans anywhere else. |
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Post by ACW on May 2, 2019 19:56:15 GMT 1
Please don’t forget our awful luck with Refs decisions (Cardiff) injuries (Mooy) and the dreadful summer recruitment which I don’t believe was down to Wagner. Also, amongst all of this we remained competitive in most games and the spirit within the club was still good. Compare that with what we have now. Wagner is totally beyond reproach in my eyes. I personally think it's ridiculous that Wagner finished with 2 wins from 28 games or 5 from 44 if you want to go back that far and is labelled a genius while the same folk are labelling Siewart a fraud I didn't want Siewart, it was a ridiculous appointment really, but he's here now so might aswell back him. Wagner was a very good manager for Town but a genius wouldn't go on such a poor extended run. I think he'll be a pretty average manager in Germany where his methods are common place Any manager who can get Town promoted to the Premier League and keep them there is a genius in my book. |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 21:07:46 GMT 1
Wagner was here and a lot of fans didn’t back him and that was probably a small factor in him going. The fact ‘Jan is here now’ is not justification on its own for fans to back him or is it? A lot of fans didn’t back Wagner even after the success he’d brought us. What if Jan is not the right man/out of his depth etc..Wouldn't fan pressure help erase the mistake before it’s too late? Who wasn't backing Wagner? There wasn't anyone calling for him to go. Some questioning his tactics and rightly so but we were all still behind him. The one thing nobody can criticise the fans for this season is turning on the club. It's been one of the worst seasons of any club in the history of professional football and fans are still turning out and supporting the players every week That wasn’t my experience. Ok there weren’t Wagner out Facebook groups or maybe there were I wouldn’t know, but I felt there was a pretty negative attitude at the ground from early on. Wagner had a lot to do with that as did the senior pros but there wasn’t a growing voice of dissent on here and anti Wagner sentiment. People got really tetchy saying shite like wagner was beyond reproach. Long before we were down people we’re leaving en masse after 70 mins. I don’t think the clubs fans were as good as you say- not before Wagner left anyway. There was a strong anti Wagner group on here wasn’t there. Anyone that tried to toe the club line was called a happy clapper- a blind optimist watching Wagner take the club straight back down. You may not have not been in that group, not saying you were, but that was a strong sentiment on this board. I know because I was one of said happy clappers and believed in Wagner until the end, albeit not the players after endless failures to score. |
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 21:13:29 GMT 1
Wagner was here and a lot of fans didn’t back him and that was probably a small factor in him going. The fact ‘Jan is here now’ is not justification on its own for fans to back him or is it? A lot of fans didn’t back Wagner even after the success he’d brought us. What if Jan is not the right man/out of his depth etc..Wouldn't fan pressure help erase the mistake before it’s too late? I doubt he'd get better backing from the fans anywhere else. Perhaps not. I guess that was my point really. The notion of loyalty in football is long gone. It’s a results business and a fast one at that. Lampard will have been lauded at Derby- the fact he chose their club, football legend etc..but if they miss the play offs or ago out tamely there’ll be questions from fans about him. Should they give him another year? There’ll be dissenters no doubt. It’s the nature of football these days. I’m not really pro or anti Jan..I just find this notion that “he’s our manger we should get behind him” too simplistic and not commonly held or practiced view anymore. Fans have expectations. If they’re met by manager they like him, as soon as he’s not meeting them it’s bye byes. |
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Post by Baby-face Frankenstein on May 2, 2019 22:20:29 GMT 1
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Post by Baby-face Frankenstein on May 2, 2019 22:57:11 GMT 1
Actually unbelievable that someone could pass themselves as a journalist and type that. Changed his tune somewhat here: www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/david-wagner-agrees-deal-take-14982900. Although he couldn't quite get his facts right with Schalke securing their top-flight status: "Schalke are 15th in the Bundesliga and have three games left after only just securing their top-flight status" - this is not true and it might even be getting to squeaky-bum time for S04 as Stuttgart can still win all three games to send Schalke into the relegation play-offs (last game is Schalke v Stuttgart). Edit: On another note, what sort of people are these sort of journalists - from "Huddersfield flop" to "He impressively guided the Terriers to the Premier League in 2017 via the play-offs on just a net outlay of less than £3million" within the space of a few hours. PATHETIC, really!! |
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2019 10:16:06 GMT 1
THE DAILY MIRROR. WAGNER THE FLOP! Same journalist (James Nursey) that claimed Lee Clark was the new Leicester manager... Clickbait, ignore and move on |
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Post by Nickhudds.UTT on May 3, 2019 10:18:56 GMT 1
few loans to town ?
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Post by Mecha Corte on May 3, 2019 12:35:49 GMT 1
Pleased it's in Germany, can still remember Buxton bringing a Scunthorpe team back to Leeds Road in the League Cup and it would have been very weird to come up against DW next season.
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bogart
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Post by bogart on May 3, 2019 14:04:19 GMT 1
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Post by Baby-face Frankenstein on May 3, 2019 15:19:41 GMT 1
Maybe there's been a hitch. But I'm guessing it's more likely to be what you initially suggested, namely the matter of clearing up which division they are going to be playing in next season. So it probably won't be til Sunday now, I guess. Wagner will be hoping Hertha can beat Stuttgart on Saturday to quicken things up, but a Stuttgart win will put a provisional spanner in the works, because then Schalke will really need to beat Augsburg on Sunday before the presumably onlooking David Wagner. Think it could still be close yet for the "Knappen" :-) |
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Post by keithAM11532 on May 3, 2019 15:37:27 GMT 1
Who wasn't backing Wagner? There wasn't anyone calling for him to go. Some questioning his tactics and rightly so but we were all still behind him. The one thing nobody can criticise the fans for this season is turning on the club. It's been one of the worst seasons of any club in the history of professional football and fans are still turning out and supporting the players every week That wasn’t my experience. Ok there weren’t Wagner out Facebook groups or maybe there were I wouldn’t know, but I felt there was a pretty negative attitude at the ground from early on. Wagner had a lot to do with that as did the senior pros but there wasn’t a growing voice of dissent on here and anti Wagner sentiment. People got really tetchy saying shite like wagner was beyond reproach. Long before we were down people we’re leaving en masse after 70 mins. I don’t think the clubs fans were as good as you say- not before Wagner left anyway. There was a strong anti Wagner group on here wasn’t there. Anyone that tried to toe the club line was called a happy clapper- a blind optimist watching Wagner take the club straight back down. You may not have not been in that group, not saying you were, but that was a strong sentiment on this board. I know because I was one of said happy clappers and believed in Wagner until the end, albeit not the players after endless failures to score. Fans...hmmm. Facebook was full of vile illiterate thuglligans (yes I made that word up). The FB banter page, was , and still is, shockingly embarrassing. It's my belief that no manager was going to keep us up this season with the squad of players we had and the style we felt we had to adopt because of that. No one. Period. Trouble is the same fans that attack other clubs for swapping managers faster than your shit nicks became exactly the same baying crowd. Wagner has to go, with no idea who might replace him. JS is appointed and hey presto fast as lightening nothing changes. JS has to go, he's dragging us down they chime up with barely a dozen games gone. In my mind these people are not fans, they are moronic idiots who want to broadcast shit from the safe sanctity of their wankhole. I am sure the manager and the players read all that's said about them, sadly, as in other facets of life it's always the vocal minority that create all the headlines. We missed a trick losing Wagner. I like the Burnley approach. I don't particularly like Dyche, but he has proven to be the best thing for them since sliced bread. If we are not established in the top 6 by Christmas the mob will be after JS blood and we will have to start all over again. Social Media..its bollocks. |
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Post by royrace on May 3, 2019 15:48:01 GMT 1
That wasn’t my experience. Ok there weren’t Wagner out Facebook groups or maybe there were I wouldn’t know, but I felt there was a pretty negative attitude at the ground from early on. Wagner had a lot to do with that as did the senior pros but there wasn’t a growing voice of dissent on here and anti Wagner sentiment. People got really tetchy saying shite like wagner was beyond reproach. Long before we were down people we’re leaving en masse after 70 mins. I don’t think the clubs fans were as good as you say- not before Wagner left anyway. There was a strong anti Wagner group on here wasn’t there. Anyone that tried to toe the club line was called a happy clapper- a blind optimist watching Wagner take the club straight back down. You may not have not been in that group, not saying you were, but that was a strong sentiment on this board. I know because I was one of said happy clappers and believed in Wagner until the end, albeit not the players after endless failures to score. Fans...hmmm. Facebook was full of vile illiterate thuglligans (yes I made that word up). The FB banter page, was , and still is, shockingly embarrassing. It's my belief that no manager was going to keep us up this season with the squad of players we had and the style we felt we had to adopt because of that. No one. Period. Trouble is the same fans that attack other clubs for swapping managers faster than your shit nicks became exactly the same baying crowd. Wagner has to go, with no idea who might replace him. JS is appointed and hey presto fast as lightening nothing changes. JS has to go, he's dragging us down they chime up with barely a dozen games gone. In my mind these people are not fans, they are moronic idiots who want to broadcast shit from the safe sanctity of their wankhole. I am sure the manager and the players read all that's said about them, sadly, as in other facets of life it's always the vocal minority that create all the headlines. We missed a trick losing Wagner. I like the Burnley approach. I don't particularly like Dyche, but he has proven to be the best thing for them since sliced bread. If we are not established in the top 6 by Christmas the mob will be after JS blood and we will have to start all over again. Social Media..its bollocks. Must admit I don't use Facebook (for some the reasons above) but based on what I saw and see elsewhere there was a tiny minority wanting Wagner out, absolutely miniscule and irrelevant. It's different with Siewert, there's are many valid reasons why people have zero faith in him. I agree letting Wagner slip through our fingers was a huge mistake but it was nothing to do with social media IMO and everything to do with poor decision making at the club in the summer. Who was responsible is open to debate but the buck stops with the board. As for managers and players reading whats said about them they should be barred from any Town related social media for their own good, I'm sure the ones with any sense don't go near it! |
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Post by keithAM11532 on May 3, 2019 15:51:35 GMT 1
Fans...hmmm. Facebook was full of vile illiterate thuglligans (yes I made that word up). The FB banter page, was , and still is, shockingly embarrassing. It's my belief that no manager was going to keep us up this season with the squad of players we had and the style we felt we had to adopt because of that. No one. Period. Trouble is the same fans that attack other clubs for swapping managers faster than your shit nicks became exactly the same baying crowd. Wagner has to go, with no idea who might replace him. JS is appointed and hey presto fast as lightening nothing changes. JS has to go, he's dragging us down they chime up with barely a dozen games gone. In my mind these people are not fans, they are moronic idiots who want to broadcast shit from the safe sanctity of their wankhole. I am sure the manager and the players read all that's said about them, sadly, as in other facets of life it's always the vocal minority that create all the headlines. We missed a trick losing Wagner. I like the Burnley approach. I don't particularly like Dyche, but he has proven to be the best thing for them since sliced bread. If we are not established in the top 6 by Christmas the mob will be after JS blood and we will have to start all over again. Social Media..its bollocks. Must admit I don't use Facebook (for some the reasons above) but based on what I saw and see elsewhere there was a tiny minority wanting Wagner out, absolutely miniscule and irrelevant. It's different with Siewert, there's are many valid reasons why people have zero faith in him. I agree letting Wagner slip through our fingers was a huge mistake but it was nothing to do with social media IMO and everything to do with poor decision making at the club in the summer. Who was responsible is open to debate but the buck stops with the board. As for managers and players reading whats said about them they should be barred from any Town related social media for their own good, I'm sure the ones with any sense don't go near it! You are right. I was going to reference the poor player recruitment. But it's water under the bridge now, and some of those players have an opportunity to put things right next season. So I will get behind them. UTT |
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Post by Baby-face Frankenstein on May 6, 2019 10:49:08 GMT 1
The normally very-reliable Kicker magazine reporting that Schalke's supervisory board members have thrown some awkward questions at the chief executive, Jochen Schneider. Asked what is so special about Wagner, Schneider seems to have initially not provided an answer that has satisfied everyone on the board.
So could be a while yet before hearing any confirmation of DW's appointment. For me, I'd like to see him embrace Hertha's interest and go to Berlin.
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Post by Million Dollar Babies on May 6, 2019 13:02:05 GMT 1
The normally very-reliable Kicker magazine reporting that Schalke's supervisory board members have thrown some awkward questions at the chief executive, Jochen Schneider. Asked what is so special about Wagner, Schneider seems to have initially not provided an answer that has satisfied everyone on the board. So could be a while yet before hearing any confirmation of DW's appointment. For me, I'd like to see him embrace Hertha's interest and go to Berlin. To be fair it is a big jump from getting a team promoted to the Premier League to managing a side who should be finishing in the Champions League places I thought he would have to take a job at a Palace type club (or German equivalent) and prove himself there before getting a job like the Schalke one. |
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Post by Baby-face Frankenstein on May 6, 2019 14:51:35 GMT 1
The normally very-reliable Kicker magazine reporting that Schalke's supervisory board members have thrown some awkward questions at the chief executive, Jochen Schneider. Asked what is so special about Wagner, Schneider seems to have initially not provided an answer that has satisfied everyone on the board. So could be a while yet before hearing any confirmation of DW's appointment. For me, I'd like to see him embrace Hertha's interest and go to Berlin. To be fair it is a big jump from getting a team promoted to the Premier League to managing a side who should be finishing in the Champions League places I thought he would have to take a job at a Palace type club (or German equivalent) and prove himself there before getting a job like the Schalke one. Schalke is a big club, I mean I do find myself asking whether it's the type of high-pressure job that a person who wanted a break from football only 4 months ago would be wanting. I thought he'd be taking a longer while off and then come back, like you thought, to a job where the weight of expectancy isn't so high. If you will, a Crystal Palace type club in Germany (which in the top-flight would be a Mainz 05 or an Augsburg - although having said that, look at the clubs who've been making enquiries over the last couple of years: Stuttgart, Frankfurt, Wolfsburg, Leverkusen and now Hertha Berlin and Schalke 04, so maybe he does fancy his chances at a big club). It's going to be interesting to hear where he ends up at any rate. |
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Post by deadleg on May 6, 2019 15:01:07 GMT 1
It does seem like a bit of a no-lose though really, they'll struggle to do worse than they have this year so even if he ultimately underperforms he'll still be able to say he steadied the ship and turned things around to some degree. As far as big clubs go, it seems about as favourable a situation as he'll ever get to see if he can deal with higher expectations.
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Post by Convictatthemac on May 8, 2019 11:46:55 GMT 1
Rumour in the media is now that Rebbe will be joining DW at Schalke.
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Post by otium (EPBS) on May 8, 2019 21:49:42 GMT 1
Narrow, narrow margins. Serial success is a rarity and randomness is always at play.
Geniuses move in to obscurity.....skidmarks become rich and famous.
Wagner is (or was) no better a manager than Buxton. Of that i have zero doubt.
He might win the Bundesliga but he is far more likely to get them relegated.
The Germans were the best military unit ever...they got spanked.
Ali the best heavyweight...got his head knocked off.
Failure is at least as frequent as success even for the successful.
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Post by lorddriffield on May 8, 2019 22:53:43 GMT 1
Narrow, narrow margins. Serial success is a rarity and randomness is always at play. Geniuses move in to obscurity.....skidmarks become rich and famous. Wagner is (or was) no better a manager than Buxton. Of that i have zero doubt. He might win the Bundesliga but he is far more likely to get them relegated. The Germans were the best military unit ever...they got spanked. Ali the best heavyweight...got his head knocked off. Failure is at least as frequent as success even for the successful. Oti, was that a Freudian slip when you mentioned "skidmarks"? If not I want last week's boxer shorts on the front page tomorrow! Inside out of course so everyone can see the damage. |
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Post by Town Duppy on May 8, 2019 23:46:11 GMT 1
Narrow, narrow margins. Serial success is a rarity and randomness is always at play. Geniuses move in to obscurity.....skidmarks become rich and famous. Wagner is (or was) no better a manager than Buxton. Of that i have zero doubt. He might win the Bundesliga but he is far more likely to get them relegated. The Germans were the best military unit ever...they got spanked. Ali the best heavyweight...got his head knocked off. Failure is at least as frequent as success even for the successful. Oti, was that a Freudian slip when you mentioned "skidmarks"? If not I want last week's boxer shorts on the front page tomorrow! Inside out of course so everyone can see the damage. Oti's grundies will no doubt be full of Deutche marks. |
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Post by impact on May 8, 2019 23:52:38 GMT 1
Narrow, narrow margins. Serial success is a rarity and randomness is always at play. Geniuses move in to obscurity.....skidmarks become rich and famous. Wagner is (or was) no better a manager than Buxton. Of that i have zero doubt. He might win the Bundesliga but he is far more likely to get them relegated. The Germans were the best military unit ever...they got spanked. Ali the best heavyweight...got his head knocked off. Failure is at least as frequent as success even for the successful. Aye a guy who got a team predicted to be relegated promoted to the top flight for the 1st time in 45 years, and who "might win the Bundesliga" is worse than, or at best equal manager to, Mick Buxton. |
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Post by Frankiesleftpeg on May 9, 2019 0:31:22 GMT 1
Narrow, narrow margins. Serial success is a rarity and randomness is always at play. Geniuses move in to obscurity.....skidmarks become rich and famous. Wagner is (or was) no better a manager than Buxton. Of that i have zero doubt. He might win the Bundesliga but he is far more likely to get them relegated. The Germans were the best military unit ever...they got spanked. Ali the best heavyweight...got his head knocked off. Failure is at least as frequent as success even for the successful. Aye a guy who got a team predicted to be relegated promoted to the top flight for the 1st time in 45 years, and who "might win the Bundesliga" is worse than, or at best equal manager to, Mick Buxton. Wagner did fantastically well for us in his first two seasons but never underestimate the achievments of Mick Buxton, the second longest serving manager in our history, who tooks us from the foot of the fourth divison to the second divison (now Championship). Both were great managers who I would hold in equal esteem. |
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Post by otium (EPBS) on May 9, 2019 7:36:46 GMT 1
Narrow, narrow margins. Serial success is a rarity and randomness is always at play. Geniuses move in to obscurity.....skidmarks become rich and famous. Wagner is (or was) no better a manager than Buxton. Of that i have zero doubt. He might win the Bundesliga but he is far more likely to get them relegated. The Germans were the best military unit ever...they got spanked. Ali the best heavyweight...got his head knocked off. Failure is at least as frequent as success even for the successful. Aye a guy who got a team predicted to be relegated promoted to the top flight for the 1st time in 45 years, and who "might win the Bundesliga" is worse than, or at best equal manager to, Mick Buxton. You have no idea pal. OTI could win the Bundeliga....and the Premier league....i would even assert that with the right team behind you and financial backing you would. Now are you a great manager? Buxton never got the chance....nor did my Granny. Wagner fans will be so disappointed if he gets relegated next season...a likely scenario. |
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Post by impact on May 9, 2019 8:18:05 GMT 1
Aye a guy who got a team predicted to be relegated promoted to the top flight for the 1st time in 45 years, and who "might win the Bundesliga" is worse than, or at best equal manager to, Mick Buxton. You have no idea pal. OTI could win the Bundeliga....and the Premier league....i would even assert that with the right team behind you and financial backing you would. Now are you a great manager? Buxton never got the chance....nor did my Granny. Wagner fans will be so disappointed if he gets relegated next season...a likely scenario. No you couldn't. No I couldn't. |
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